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-1/+1 Match Making


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Poll: -1/+1 for MM? (78 members have cast votes)

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Change matchmaking to -1/+1?

  1. Yes! (45 votes [57.69%])

    Percentage of vote: 57.69%

  2. No! (33 votes [42.31%])

    Percentage of vote: 42.31%

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CarvinMarvin #21 Posted 09 March 2016 - 05:49 AM

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View Postfirot, on 07 March 2016 - 01:42 PM, said:

Would certainly do alot better for t8s

 

Would it? That's a lot of tier 7 tanks they are now fighting when they are top tier.

View PostPimp_Daddy_XR, on 08 March 2016 - 04:35 PM, said:

+1/-1 is a bad idea. It will just further reduce skill levels by making the game easier. Plus seeing more tanks of +/-2 adds variety of opponents.

 

Introduce a proper anti afk instead of this...

 

  Yes. This. So many complain that they can't do anything when they are -2. That isn't true. Being able to make -2 work develops skills. And not just skills that are useful when you are bottom tiers. For example when you are -2 you can't afford to trade shots so to be successful you need to learn how not to be doing that. You need to learn how to be a force multiplier, not just another gun. This means you need to learn how to make others more effective to get your wins.

 

Rest assured teams who have lower tiers that actually contribute to games win more than those whose lower tiers give up and add nothing.

View PostJK_STONE, on 09 March 2016 - 12:07 AM, said:

Hi Elphaba,

 

If I recall correctly, the original purpose with 2-tier matching was to address the 'wait time' issue due to lack of player base.  Now that player base is no longer the main concern, coming back to +/-1 was foreseeable. But I think through the course of playing with potential 2 tier difference, we have also learnt to adapt.  I find that game with 2-tier tank differential isn't the biggest challenge, but rather inconsistent overall MM tiering (i.e. 7 Tier 10 vs. 7 Tier 9, extreme illustration purpose only) or extreme tank type combination difference (5 med vs 5 td).

 

I voted for +/-1 and believe it will not degrade play quality nor help the lazy noob players. Noob player will find a way to noob-out no matter what tiering or combination.  I also believe +/-1 is the most competitive and closest to the future clan war format. Looking at the recent success of Supremacy II videos, I noticed most games were all within 1-tier of difference (intentionally done using tier X as base) and game quality didn't degrade because of single tier difference. The biggest factor impacting play quality was tank type combination (MM) and player quality issue (Skill-base).  My 2c!

 

+/-2 has never had anything to do with the number of players, same as the reasons why the PC MM  has the same +2/-2 as we have in Blitz.


 

To be honest I would be happy to see +2/-2 return to tier 4, and only have tier 2 & 3 be -1/+2MM.


 

 


 


arceus1996 #22 Posted 09 March 2016 - 01:30 PM

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View PostPimp_Daddy_XR, on 09 March 2016 - 02:39 AM, said:

 

I agree.

 

What refund from WG do players get who bought pref MM tanks?

 

Pz B2 like MM for IS-6s and Types!:P

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Amokz #23 Posted 09 March 2016 - 03:41 PM

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I started a month back and am still learning the ropes. The new matchmaking makes my wins come incredibly harder and downright annoying when my T34 meets an IS or other +2 tanks. Not happy :(

CALVINJJ #24 Posted 09 March 2016 - 04:55 PM

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+-1 mm is actually pretty good

stock tank usually suffers a lot when place at the bottom 

+-1 mm will actually make stock tank have better grind

 

but +-1 mm may prove to bring disaster to the game

some tank that have pref mm as their specialty

if all tank have such pref mm, then pref mm tank won't be as interesting as last time

plenty of rebalance work will need to incur in order for the issue

 

so I believe maintain the old mm is better for wargaming perspective 

because it save more time and money compare to changing into +-1mm

furthermore, if wg rebalance the tank wrongly could make customer unhappy and might rage quit too

stay with the old mm will save plenty of cost


Edited by CALVINJJ, 09 March 2016 - 04:57 PM.

現在只是個亡靈,請無視就好


RoneMok #25 Posted 09 March 2016 - 07:04 PM

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Sheesh.....

 

After reading the arguements from the more experienced players from my batch, I have deleted my vote.

 

They are right, the +-1 MM is a bad idea.

 

Wait, wait, dont jump the wagon yet.

 

Provided the top tiers promise to lead and kill the enemies with their big guns instead of poking the maidens.



Brendon_2015 #26 Posted 10 March 2016 - 12:01 AM

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View PostRoneMok, on 10 March 2016 - 05:04 AM, said:

 

 

Wait, wait, dont jump the wagon yet.

 

Provided the top tiers promise to lead and kill the enemies with their big guns instead of poking the maidens.

 

I live to see the day when top tiers actually lead. More often than not they're at the back. Only exceptions I will say are Russian tier X meds and the is7 as I generally see them being proactive.... It speaks volumes about how strong they are.

Brendon

 

It's only a scratch, just buff it out. 

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RazorOmegaOne #27 Posted 11 March 2016 - 04:20 AM

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I guess it's obviously that experienced players prefer +2/-2 while inexperienced players prefer +1/-1.

Now it's just which group of players WG prefer catering for.


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anthonylei01 #28 Posted 11 March 2016 - 07:13 AM

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there are countless thread on the US form at the moment.... people complaining with the +2 / -2 MM~~~~



deongunner #29 Posted 11 March 2016 - 10:20 AM

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View Postanthonylei01, on 11 March 2016 - 02:13 PM, said:

there are countless thread on the US form at the moment.... people complaining with the +2 / -2 MM~~~~

 

Maybe because NA base players are "noober" than the Asia? Based on wotbstars its clear that NA have very low average values compare to the other 3, especially RU. Average winrates also dips, the only good thing about the gameplays are most of them speak english, the thing sucks is because I try to explain step by step in the team chat but nobody listen since Asia have lots of foreign language speakers....

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Shinzenbi #30 Posted 11 March 2016 - 12:33 PM

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I dont agree with this, if you're in a bottom tier maybe you just have to plan and know your tank role so that you can still help your team maybe i distraction or a flanker.. Sometimes its fun being in the bottom tier your not requied to brawl upfront or hold the enemy. Plus you can learn how to properly support your team.. 



AmerSD #31 Posted 11 March 2016 - 06:24 PM

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Well last review I've said the -1/+1 mm works for me coz its help my tanks survivability. But then, when I'm get used to this game, the -2/+2 mm not entirely bad at all. Feel good too when I get to kill some Maus and other tier X tanks. Key is team must know their roles. I learned many things too. I suggest we keep the mm system as it now. But whatever the developer choose, I didnt mind at all. I really enjoy this game as it now or any future changes. Nice to be one of the WOTB community. Mobilize.

Mehliveat #32 Posted 12 March 2016 - 02:57 AM

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View Postanthonylei01, on 11 March 2016 - 05:13 PM, said:

there are countless thread on the US form at the moment.... people complaining with the +2 / -2 MM~~~~

 

Going through those threads I can see two groups of people.

 

  1. Some are confounding the issue of tier dispersion and the +2-2 vs +1-1 MM.  A bad tier dispersion tends to end up more lopsided in a +2-2 environment.  So instead of complaining about the tier dispersion issue that is the fundamental cause, they complain about the +2-2.  The funny thing is that, these tier dispersion issues have always been there, but now they need to have a big uproar about it.
  2. Really bad players and their inability to adapt and learn to a +2-2 environment.


Dr_Jedi #33 Posted 12 March 2016 - 03:22 AM

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Why get +1/-1?

If it's because of inability of having good game because of being 2 tier lower.

Then we would have problem even when one tier lower.

So why stop at +/- 1? Why not +/- 0?

 

I would like to keep it as it is, 2 tier difference has worked nicely for me, and will keep working nicely...



Pro_Decoy #34 Posted 12 March 2016 - 04:43 AM

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View Postchironjit10drockstar, on 04 March 2016 - 06:20 PM, said:

i always play tier 10....   any matchmakin will work for me...   and sumtimes if u end in teams with 1 less tier 10  i say put your skills in test and guide the team to victory if they know english ...   jajajajajaja

 

It will actually make it worse for tier ten as they will never see tier 8
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Pro_Decoy #35 Posted 12 March 2016 - 06:55 AM

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No leave it as is the only thing I want to see is even tier matching per side
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DimKyon #36 Posted 12 March 2016 - 03:28 PM

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I agree with this man especially with the one I bold-ed

 

View PostJK_STONE, on 08 March 2016 - 09:07 PM, said:

Hi Elphaba,

 

If I recall correctly, the original purpose with 2-tier matching was to address the 'wait time' issue due to lack of player base.  Now that player base is no longer the main concern, coming back to +/-1 was foreseeable. But I think through the course of playing with potential 2 tier difference, we have also learnt to adapt.  I find that game with 2-tier tank differential isn't the biggest challenge, but rather inconsistent overall MM tiering (i.e. 7 Tier 10 vs. 7 Tier 9, extreme illustration purpose only) or extreme tank type combination difference (5 med vs 5 td).

 

I voted for +/-1 and believe it will not degrade play quality nor help the lazy noob players. Noob player will find a way to noob-out no matter what tiering or combination.  I also believe +/-1 is the most competitive and closest to the future clan war format. Looking at the recent success of Supremacy II videos, I noticed most games were all within 1-tier of difference (intentionally done using tier X as base) and game quality didn't degrade because of single tier difference. The biggest factor impacting play quality was tank type combination (MM) and player quality issue (Skill-base).  My 2c!

 


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Strangely_brown #37 Posted 13 March 2016 - 12:09 AM

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View PostMehliveat, on 12 March 2016 - 12:57 PM, said:

 

Going through those threads I can see two groups of people.

 

  1. Some are confounding the issue of tier dispersion and the +2-2 vs +1-1 MM.  A bad tier dispersion tends to end up more lopsided in a +2-2 environment.  So instead of complaining about the tier dispersion issue that is the fundamental cause, they complain about the +2-2.  The funny thing is that, these tier dispersion issues have always been there, but now they need to have a big uproar about it.
  2. Really bad players and their inability to adapt and learn to a +2-2 environment.

 

LOL. "Going though these threads" makes it sound like you are about to provide a thorough analysis of the opinions. Sadly no. I'll translate your post.

 

There are two groups of people who don't agree with me:

1) the dumb

2) the really bad

 

I'm neither and I'm all for +1/-1.



Mehliveat #38 Posted 13 March 2016 - 12:37 AM

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View PostStrangely_brown, on 13 March 2016 - 10:09 AM, said:

 

LOL. "Going though these threads" makes it sound like you are about to provide a thorough analysis of the opinions. Sadly no. I'll translate your post.

 

There are two groups of people who don't agree with me:

1) the dumb

2) the really bad

 

I'm neither and I'm all for +1/-1.

 

Suggest that you go through the posts over there and see how much sense you can make out of it.  A couple days ago, there were probably a good 10-20 different MM threads on the front page of General.  It then resulted in at least 3-4 thread where people asking for calm.

 

E.g. one from today.

 

http://forum.wotblit...s-game/#topmost

 

 

As to your argument for 

 

View PostStrangely_brown, on 05 March 2016 - 06:35 PM, said:

It would avoid that feeling of complete uselessness when you drive a stock tank into a game against elited tanks two tiers higher than you. When you know that almost regardless of how great a game you feel you do your fate rests entirely in the hands of the top tiers.

 

In short, not being able to carry from -2.

 

Obviously, it hard to carry from tier -2.  That's why its a challenge, and that's why you need to explore different strategies and tactics, and hopefully adapt.  I am sure that my tier -2 WR is abysmally low, but it doesn't really matter, because those bottom tier games are not about wins, they are about challenges.

 

 



CarvinMarvin #39 Posted 13 March 2016 - 01:56 AM

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View PostMehliveat, on 13 March 2016 - 10:37 AM, said:

 

Suggest that you go through the posts over there and see how much sense you can make out of it.  A couple days ago, there were probably a good 10-20 different MM threads on the front page of General.  It then resulted in at least 3-4 thread where people asking for calm.

 

E.g. one from today.

 

http://forum.wotblit...s-game/#topmost

 

 

As to your argument for

 

 

In short, not being able to carry from -2.

 

Obviously, it hard to carry from tier -2.  That's why its a challenge, and that's why you need to explore different strategies and tactics, and hopefully adapt.  I am sure that my tier -2 WR is abysmally low, but it doesn't really matter, because those bottom tier games are not about wins, they are about challenges.

 

 

 

I liked the post that called -1/+1 more realism.

http://forum.wotblitz.com/index.php?/topic/46023-hait-going-back-to-old-matchmaking/page__st__20__pid__691980#entry691980

Guess he missed the point that Tiger I/Panther v Sherman actually happened. Or indeed IS/SU-152 v Pz.IV/StuG/Hetzer. For that matter T-34 v Pz.III and 38(t).


 

Of course there are also the others that complain they can't beat +2 tiers, and always lose because they charge into the enemy spawn to get killed and go to another game, but refuse to admit that the fact they are throwing their tank away for no gain is in anyway contributing to the fact they lose. And the fact that they don't pay any attention to what players who are succeeding do to succeed means they cannot learn.


 

To say nothing of all the complaints that their tier 8 tank can't fight insert name of tier 10 tank here. Honestly, every time people make these comments I wonder what situation they are constantly doing to always be facing down these tanks in 1-on-1 situations. Because I've almost never had to face down tier 10 tanks one on one in my tier 8 tanks.


 

Oh and then of course there is the argument that a fair number of -1/+1 supporters seem to love to bring up to dismiss regular MM players. The oh you're only a seal clubber who likes to bully tier 8 tanks in your tier 10 but can't win otherwise.

http://forum.wotblitz.com/index.php?/topic/45943-2-2-matchmaking-a-psa/page__st__160__pid__692189#entry692189

http://forum.wotblitz.com/index.php?/topic/46043-2-2-is-and-was-horrible-heres-why/page__pid__689384#entry689384

http://forum.wotblitz.com/index.php?/topic/45973-match-making-change/page__pid__689513#entry689513

And I could go on, and on with examples of these.


 

 


 


TitusTanker #40 Posted 13 March 2016 - 09:35 AM

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-2/+2 is ok but need fair tier on both side

e.g. 88999XX vs 88999XX 

it's not good now sometime 78899XX vs 8999XXX .... etc.






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