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MM is rigged


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Esh11 #1 Posted 01 July 2020 - 06:49 PM

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Every game all time all nubs on my team and pros on red team. Every game 2 afk on my team. omg ping so bad. All OP container tanks. Haven't been on the forum for quite some time. Anything new or same old same old? :playing:

                                           

                                                                 

  


Player_____1 #2 Posted 01 July 2020 - 08:25 PM

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The forum is still the same: mostly noobs complaining about rigged MM.

 


Esh11 #3 Posted 02 July 2020 - 07:18 PM

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View PostPlayer_____1, on 01 July 2020 - 08:25 PM, said:

The forum is still the same: mostly noobs complaining about rigged MM.

That never gets old.


                                           

                                                                 

  


Esh11 #4 Posted 02 July 2020 - 07:20 PM

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Im seeing all new names on the forum. I think the old regulars have left.

                                           

                                                                 

  


TheDarkCats #5 Posted 03 July 2020 - 01:01 AM

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It always feels like it, but when you win?

Sometimes you are on the red team and keep on winning



JDBC567 #6 Posted 03 July 2020 - 03:18 AM

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You will never know wether the MM is rigged or not. Unless you are a hacker who doesn't have an aversion to going to jail and/or paying a hefty fine. If yes, go ahead! Hack into WGs servers and find out for yourself. Oh and tell us too.

Dangerous_when_Sober #7 Posted 03 July 2020 - 03:41 AM

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JBDBC - we know MM is rigged for sub 5k battles. Fact.

We know the first 10 battles in a new tank tend to be at higher tier.

We know the MM takes into account tank types.

A better question is - what is the evidence thar it is not rigged?

JDBC567 #8 Posted 03 July 2020 - 03:53 AM

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View PostDangerous_when_Sober, on 03 July 2020 - 08:41 AM, said:

JBDBC - we know MM is rigged for sub 5k battles. Fact.

We know the first 10 battles in a new tank tend to be at higher tier.

We know the MM takes into account tank types.

A better question is - what is the evidence thar it is not rigged?

I think everyone means rigged as in favouring some players over others.

The points you stated are for everyone and they don't actually promote P2W or increase WGs earnings. And I don't think Asia has sub 5k MM.



erwin10001 #9 Posted 03 July 2020 - 04:53 AM

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i dont believe in rigging in terms of winrate etc. But I believe there is favourable MM for new players and apparently, for players who have not logged in for a long time (treated as new players). 

 

These players get favourable MM in terms of being top tier. The effect is subtle, not 100% chance of being top tier, more like a few extra % chance each game.

 

Thats another reason why winrate drops during events, all these new players or players who just return to play the event, are getting top tier due to the new player preferential MM. Regulars keep on getting low tier again and again. 

 


Edited by erwin10001, 03 July 2020 - 04:54 AM.


cameron1979 #10 Posted 06 July 2020 - 01:45 AM

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View Posterwin10001, on 03 July 2020 - 04:53 AM, said:

i dont believe in rigging in terms of winrate etc. But I believe there is favourable MM for new players and apparently, for players who have not logged in for a long time (treated as new players). 

 

These players get favourable MM in terms of being top tier. The effect is subtle, not 100% chance of being top tier, more like a few extra % chance each game.

 

Thats another reason why winrate drops during events, all these new players or players who just return to play the event, are getting top tier due to the new player preferential MM. Regulars keep on getting low tier again and again. 

 


Don't know about rigging but I know the past month has been off the charts bad, for me at least, at times I think I am being punked. But if bad for me, it must be good for others I guess. Highlights of the weekend include:

1) A tier 6 battle, 5 of my teammates under 100 games total, 4 of those under 50. Reds all over 1000 battles. Some of the things my team did, just staggering, not there fault as new players I know.

2) My last 11( I started taking notes on Port Bay games)  tier 6 games on Port Bay, I have won 2 and Its a map I like, my Mts have gone C flank once in 11 games, reds have done it 9 times. No chance when this happens. Higher tiers are better I notice. Final battle I went town straight away, after I saw MTs not going to C. Did 2.5K dmg and 3 kills but still not enough, the muppet who drowned himself on purpose in first 40 seconds and the AFK were too much. 

3) Afk, my first 4 battles the other night I had a complete AFk or part AFK (where they wake up when battle is just about over). Especially good when you are lower tier and AFK is top tier. Love the guys who come to life 3 minutes into the battle who then think they have to be Rambo and charge in and die within 30 seconds, Juicy was talking about this on stream the other day which made me notice it.

4) A run of 13 battles in a row bottom tier, over tiers 5,6,7 and 8. I gave up. This is why newer players go to tier 10 early.

5) MM, last battle last night, final straw, reds get 3 top tier HTs, we get none, only 2 bottom tier HTS, we had top tier TDS, with no armor on a HT based map. Surely they can even this out.

6) OP Tanks, Reds get Smasher , 62 Dragon, Drac and Helsing, Greens get T71, Bulldogs, SP1C, Emil. I played a run of 8 tier 7 battles where this happened every single battle. You know battle is over 98% of time before it begins. Lost all 8.

7) TDs even at tier 10 who don't move when sniping, even when red TDs have moved in to turn the battle and its them left at the end full health and you lose the unlosable.

8) Shots that bounce when no reason, especially into paper mache tanks, not IS4 or Obj 252Us. Highlights include an E3 from about 10 metres into the back of a progetto and last night my Crimera bouncing the back of a Goose tank from same range. Especially when you have long reload and game is tense.

9) MT flanks falling apart in 30 secs. This is another which just annoys me. I know why, poorly armored tanks and TDs but even at tier 9/10, if you are in a Leo PTA and the other team has 183, E3 etc, don't just scream into no mans land at start of battle, just asking for trouble. But when MT flank is gone and you haven't even engaged yet.

 

On a positive I played my first ratings games last night, and they seemed a better standard, 4/5 games the team worked together and too a plan.

 

I have loved the game, but frustrations this past month have got to me, In the 3 months prior I was averaging 70%WR in my ARL 44 which I played allot (Seal clubber??), my average this past month is about 45% and I am averaging more dmg this month, with a few Masteries which is very hard in ARL for an average player like me. But it has got to the stage where I don't rush to the spots I used to go or want to go, I am waiting to see what the team is doing as too many times its me vs 5 in the spot where the team should be, and they are off god knows where. Whether people admit it or not, there are maps where tanks have to go to certain spots and when teams don't do that and the red do, you lose every time.

 

I am taking a few weeks off, try and refind some enthusiasm, maybe fire up the PS4, I have some games on there I haven't played, or talk to the wife and kids a bit more!!



JDBC567 #11 Posted 06 July 2020 - 03:41 AM

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Same here. Teams have been plain bad for some time. Try switching servers. I started playing on EU and the sub 5k mm matcaking is a godsend. The teams are still bad but they are bad enough for you to easily carry most of the times. And if one team is bad, the other team is generally bad too. It's a lot better playing on that server

erwin10001 #12 Posted 06 July 2020 - 03:49 AM

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View PostJDBC567, on 06 July 2020 - 03:41 AM, said:

Same here. Teams have been plain bad for some time. Try switching servers. I started playing on EU and the sub 5k mm matcaking is a godsend. The teams are still bad but they are bad enough for you to easily carry most of the times. And if one team is bad, the other team is generally bad too. It's a lot better playing on that server

 

Yeah the sub-5k MM is great for relaxing games. No wonder Tnkdestroyerz12345 left Asia server and went to the Euro server... first 5k games are like playing against bots...

 

My winrate in T1 Heavy is about the same, whether Asia or Euro server though that might be expected because i get much higher ping in Euro server... thankfully Euro server is a camp fest and nobody moves much anyway so high ping is not a huge issue.


Edited by erwin10001, 06 July 2020 - 03:56 AM.


Newb179 #13 Posted 06 July 2020 - 03:28 PM

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LoL. By the way Erwin, I've joined your path by playing only perfectly balanced tanks. I need a new background music while playing. A bell tinkling with the woman saying "Shame... Shame..." sounds perfect. Along with "Confess it felt good" when viewing the battle results. Lol.

Jylpah #14 Posted 08 July 2020 - 09:22 AM

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View PostDangerous_when_Sober, on 03 July 2020 - 05:41 AM, said:

JBDBC - we know MM is rigged for sub 5k battles. Fact.

We know the first 10 battles in a new tank tend to be at higher tier.

We know the MM takes into account tank types.

 

 

I do not think the sub 5K MM is rigged in any means. It works exactly as WG has said and it only isolates new players to different MM queue. The mistake WG did was not to separate stats between the queues leading to rerollers to abuse the system.

 

The 10 games smooth-start MM is also something WG has openly communicated about.

 

Tank class matching is also a publicly communicated MM rule. I do not like the tank class matching, but I cannot see how it classifies as "rigging".

 

Dangerous_when_Sober, on 03 July 2020 - 05:41 AM, said:

 A better question is - what is the evidence thar it is not rigged?

 

This is a good question and maybe before that we should have a definition for what "rigging" actually is. Most people crying about "rigged MM" just want the MM to be fixed for their favor. I have developed Python scripts to analyze replays and on EU forums players have published results of replay analysis without any evidence on rigging. Over the time the teams appear to be balanced on both the sides. http://forum.wotblitz.eu/index.php?/topic/53904-matchmaking-discussion-thread/page__st__10260__pid__815307#entry815307

 

 

 


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Dangerous_when_Sober #15 Posted 15 July 2020 - 01:40 AM

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Jylpah - I think we are in agreement that the battles are not random in several aspects.

I also accept that the data “is what it is” over time.

Agreed that there is no intent to favour or punish individual players.

The question remains of whether there is some sort of recent win-rate  influence on MM. Many people believe this happens.

Do you have data to test whether probability of win after N losses deviates from expected?

I would run this type of anslysis on the serial Afks since they do not actively change play style. If they tend to win more than expected after N losses that would be interesting.

Or if wins likely at certain times of day (could be other reasons for that)


Lord_Melchett #16 Posted 15 July 2020 - 04:37 AM

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I'm not interested enough to keep solid data.  The only instances that I can recall (quoted in forums) of people keeping detailed data of a significant number of their own battles has not indicated systemic rigging in matchmaking.

 

The only matchmaking trend that I notice regularly is low tier streaks.  It's not uncommon for me to have streaks of 8-10 battles low tier, over different tiers from 5-9.  I expect more than average low tier battles playing tiers 7 and 9 (as a corollary of tier 10 pulling tiers 9s into tier 10 battles, leaving tier 8s to predominantly be high tier), so I'm never surprised by runs of low tier in tier 7 or 9 tanks.  I'm talking about low tier streaks, playing different tiers within the streak.

 

Longest low tier streak recently was 13 battles, but I don't often count (only when I'm irritated).   Now, I'm as susceptible to confirmation bias as the next tanker, so I'm not going to make any grand statements about rigging.  For example, I may just as well have had some high tier streaks in there as well - but who counts those?

 

Then, of course, there is the question of whether that affects win rate.  I have to say, as an experienced mediocre player, that being high or low tier has less of an effect on win rate than than the quality of players in the tanks on my team.



__iTATi__ #17 Posted 15 July 2020 - 05:45 AM

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I had 13 recently too - this was not all in the same tank/tier as I was jumping getting my 2x.

JDBC567 #18 Posted 15 July 2020 - 05:58 AM

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For the last time! Hack into the server and open the RNG program. If you find something suspicious, then restart this thread! This conversation won't go anywhere without solid proof. Either a P2W player and a f2p player with over 5k recorded battles are compared or the server has to be hacked! If anyone can do these things please do but take care while hacking the server as it could land you into jail




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