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Is the Sherman Firefly good?

Sherman Firefly

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Aky_Seargent #1 Posted 29 April 2020 - 11:02 AM

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I have a Sherman Firefly tank. It doesn't seem that it's doing well. I have just progressed into the VI tier. Is it a good tank? It just gets destroyed 3 minutes after the game starts.It is slow. It sometimes block shells like nobody's business. But then gets hit by a KV-2 while it's health is full and gets destroyed by one shot. I also have a Crusader, a Leopard, and a Wolverine. Should I have gone for the Cromwell instead? Is it the higher tier, the tank, or me being a bad player(You can see my statistics to tell. Here is the link- https://wotblitz.asi...s/2023985326/#/ .My dmg fluctuates a lot. Sometimes I am the MVP, sometimes I die at the very beginning.)

 

Moved to 'Medium Tanks' subforum.

 

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Edited by Aky_Seargent, 29 April 2020 - 12:39 PM.

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Diamond114 #2 Posted 29 April 2020 - 04:42 PM

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View PostAky_Seargent, on 29 April 2020 - 08:02 PM, said:

I have a Sherman Firefly tank. It doesn't seem that it's doing well. I have just progressed into the VI tier. Is it a good tank? It just gets destroyed 3 minutes after the game starts.It is slow. It sometimes block shells like nobody's business. But then gets hit by a KV-2 while it's health is full and gets destroyed by one shot. I also have a Crusader, a Leopard, and a Wolverine. Should I have gone for the Cromwell instead? Is it the higher tier, the tank, or me being a bad player(You can see my statistics to tell. Here is the link- https://wotblitz.asi...s/2023985326/#/ .My dmg fluctuates a lot. Sometimes I am the MVP, sometimes I die at the very beginning.)

 

Moved to 'Medium Tanks' subforum.

 

~Elite911.

 

The thing about the Firefly is that it has: 

- Fairly bad armor (not as bad as Cromwell; Cromwells CAN be penned by 152mm HE shell even on the turret front in most cases),

- Poor gun depression for a Sherman variant (-6 degrees, which for a tank its size and how high the gun is placed on the turret is quite bad; Sherman families excluding Firefly usually does -10 degrees AT LEAST),

- Fairly slow for a medium tank, and with a big silhouette making it easy to hit by the enemy tanks.

- Fairly decent gun handling, coupled with the relatively low speed meaning on the move shots are more likely to connect.

- Good penetration for a medium tank gun with the 17-pounder gun; 170mm-ish pen on AP is nothing to sneeze at especially against other mediums or against side armor of heavies

- 1741 DPM and 5.5 sec reload fully upgraded is also quite decent for a medium tank, only beaten by the M4A3E8, Type 58 and Chi-To among same-tier meds 

 

What you need to do is learn how to keep the gun firing without attracting much attention if possible. Add the problem of doing all the above without the advantage of hull-down which all other Sherman variants enjoy due to their traditionally good gun depression angles and better turret armor, this limits your general option to either:

 

- Wolfpacking with other mediums and/or lights and supporting each other against enemy wolfpacks by sharing hits among you and whittle down the enemy by focusing them down before then striking enemy heavies from the flank or rear, again, using your superior DPM to whittle down enemy tanks` HP

- Supporting heavy tanks` push by giving them flank protection and covering for them big alpha gunned heavies while they reload, letting the heavy tanks taking/ bouncing the hits for you and softening the enemy tanks for your heavies to kill or alternatively, kill anyone they can`t finish in one shot especially when working with IS or others with similar big alpha guns.

 

Working ridgelines should be limited to spotting what`s on the other side, only go up the hill and expose yourself to fire at unsuspecting targets and after you`ve certain that no one will focus you down when you`re spotted. If so, fire a few shots, then back off and try repeating from a different position to avoid attracting much return fire.

 

DO NOT get focused down by enemy tanks as you will not survive in most cases. Do not expose yourself unnecessarily and have an escape plan should you decide to crest up the ridgeline when unspotted. Reposition often and try to survive to the end game with most your HP pool intact; you`ll be surprised at how much contribution you can give late in the game when every other reds are heavily battered and can`t take more than 2-3 rounds with 160 average alpha.

 

I`m sorry to break the news, but even after all the above advice, I still think the Firefly is NOT an easy and enjoyable tank to play. With only penetration and DPM as your strong point, you`re more or less going to be limited to second-line medium tank role and most likely be dependent on the rest of your team pulling their weight and taking/ bouncing the hits for you, especially since the Firefly also cannot hull-down effectively like most other mediums can and thus cannot manufacture opportunities when you can shoot at enemy tanks and make use of your gun. I`d suggest you get through to the Comet or Challenger quickly and just dump the tank afterwards :(


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BossArdnutz #3 Posted 29 April 2020 - 10:22 PM

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Frankly the British medium tanks are all difficult tanks to play. I do NOT recommend that line for a new player at all. It was my first line and my career stats still bear the scars!

That said, as difficult as the Firefly is, some of your difficulty is coming from inexperience and the higher tier. I would recommend playing a lot more games at tier V before moving up - make sure you turn Supremacy mode off to improve your chance of facing lower tier tanks.

Easier lines for a new player would be the Russian medium tanks T-34 and, once you've gotten good at hiding your hull, the T-34/85; the US heavy tank line, T1 Heavy is a super strong tank but it might teach you a few bad habits; the US medium tanks at tier V and VI are great for hull-down ridge fighting, but they get much harder to play after that. The German medium tanks at lower tiers are a good mix of armour, mobility and firepower and have fairly simple shapes which can help with learning how to use your armour effectively.

Edited by BossArdnutz, 29 April 2020 - 10:23 PM.


Aky_Seargent #4 Posted 30 April 2020 - 05:29 AM

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View PostDiamond114, on 29 April 2020 - 04:42 PM, said:

 

The thing about the Firefly is that it has: 

- Fairly bad armor (not as bad as Cromwell; Cromwells CAN be penned by 152mm HE shell even on the turret front in most cases),

- Poor gun depression for a Sherman variant (-6 degrees, which for a tank its size and how high the gun is placed on the turret is quite bad; Sherman families excluding Firefly usually does -10 degrees AT LEAST),

- Fairly slow for a medium tank, and with a big silhouette making it easy to hit by the enemy tanks.

- Fairly decent gun handling, coupled with the relatively low speed meaning on the move shots are more likely to connect.

- Good penetration for a medium tank gun with the 17-pounder gun; 170mm-ish pen on AP is nothing to sneeze at especially against other mediums or against side armor of heavies

- 1741 DPM and 5.5 sec reload fully upgraded is also quite decent for a medium tank, only beaten by the M4A3E8, Type 58 and Chi-To among same-tier meds 

 

What you need to do is learn how to keep the gun firing without attracting much attention if possible. Add the problem of doing all the above without the advantage of hull-down which all other Sherman variants enjoy due to their traditionally good gun depression angles and better turret armor, this limits your general option to either:

 

- Wolfpacking with other mediums and/or lights and supporting each other against enemy wolfpacks by sharing hits among you and whittle down the enemy by focusing them down before then striking enemy heavies from the flank or rear, again, using your superior DPM to whittle down enemy tanks` HP

- Supporting heavy tanks` push by giving them flank protection and covering for them big alpha gunned heavies while they reload, letting the heavy tanks taking/ bouncing the hits for you and softening the enemy tanks for your heavies to kill or alternatively, kill anyone they can`t finish in one shot especially when working with IS or others with similar big alpha guns.

 

Working ridgelines should be limited to spotting what`s on the other side, only go up the hill and expose yourself to fire at unsuspecting targets and after you`ve certain that no one will focus you down when you`re spotted. If so, fire a few shots, then back off and try repeating from a different position to avoid attracting much return fire.

 

DO NOT get focused down by enemy tanks as you will not survive in most cases. Do not expose yourself unnecessarily and have an escape plan should you decide to crest up the ridgeline when unspotted. Reposition often and try to survive to the end game with most your HP pool intact; you`ll be surprised at how much contribution you can give late in the game when every other reds are heavily battered and can`t take more than 2-3 rounds with 160 average alpha.

 

I`m sorry to break the news, but even after all the above advice, I still think the Firefly is NOT an easy and enjoyable tank to play. With only penetration and DPM as your strong point, you`re more or less going to be limited to second-line medium tank role and most likely be dependent on the rest of your team pulling their weight and taking/ bouncing the hits for you, especially since the Firefly also cannot hull-down effectively like most other mediums can and thus cannot manufacture opportunities when you can shoot at enemy tanks and make use of your gun. I`d suggest you get through to the Comet or Challenger quickly and just dump the tank afterwards :(

 

View PostBossArdnutz, on 29 April 2020 - 10:22 PM, said:

Frankly the British medium tanks are all difficult tanks to play. I do NOT recommend that line for a new player at all. It was my first line and my career stats still bear the scars!

That said, as difficult as the Firefly is, some of your difficulty is coming from inexperience and the higher tier. I would recommend playing a lot more games at tier V before moving up - make sure you turn Supremacy mode off to improve your chance of facing lower tier tanks.

Easier lines for a new player would be the Russian medium tanks T-34 and, once you've gotten good at hiding your hull, the T-34/85; the US heavy tank line, T1 Heavy is a super strong tank but it might teach you a few bad habits; the US medium tanks at tier V and VI are great for hull-down ridge fighting, but they get much harder to play after that. The German medium tanks at lower tiers are a good mix of armour, mobility and firepower and have fairly simple shapes which can help with learning how to use your armour effectively.

Thank you, both of you. I will certainly try to follow Diamond's advice. And I have some experiece in the V tier, mainly because I have 3 V tier tanks. The thing is, I stopped playing Wotb for almost 6 months, cause I needed some space for game developing with Unreal Engine. I downloaded the game again after I managed to free some space. I think that is why my winrate is VeryLow(Please correct me if I am wrong.). And BossArdNutz, I also have a German light, and if I have accumulated enough Xp, then I will choose the German medium VK. I have the American tank destroyers(Wolverine, that's American, right?), and have seen some people on YouTube praise Hellcat. Lot of options to choose from. They confuse me.


"If you can, shoot at the rear, if you can't, shoot at the side. Don't bother with the front." 

- US Army General

Currently a UNICUM in the EU server(Formerly a SUPERUNICUM) (EU Server ID - TheMonk_74)


Aky_Seargent #5 Posted 30 April 2020 - 06:16 AM

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Thanks. I will try to follow both of your advices.

 


"If you can, shoot at the rear, if you can't, shoot at the side. Don't bother with the front." 

- US Army General

Currently a UNICUM in the EU server(Formerly a SUPERUNICUM) (EU Server ID - TheMonk_74)


Aky_Seargent #6 Posted 30 April 2020 - 01:02 PM

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Wow. I just recently got some info- https://wotblitz.com...on/gup-is-back/

Another Sherman Firefly coming!


"If you can, shoot at the rear, if you can't, shoot at the side. Don't bother with the front." 

- US Army General

Currently a UNICUM in the EU server(Formerly a SUPERUNICUM) (EU Server ID - TheMonk_74)


Diamond114 #7 Posted 01 May 2020 - 07:04 PM

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View PostAky_Seargent, on 30 April 2020 - 02:29 PM, said:

 

Thank you, both of you. I will certainly try to follow Diamond's advice. And I have some experiece in the V tier, mainly because I have 3 V tier tanks. The thing is, I stopped playing Wotb for almost 6 months, cause I needed some space for game developing with Unreal Engine. I downloaded the game again after I managed to free some space. I think that is why my winrate is VeryLow(Please correct me if I am wrong.). And BossArdNutz, I also have a German light, and if I have accumulated enough Xp, then I will choose the German medium VK. I have the American tank destroyers(Wolverine, that's American, right?), and have seen some people on YouTube praise Hellcat. Lot of options to choose from. They confuse me.


US TD lines are quite unique because their Tier VIs are both turreted with differing characteristics.

 

Hellcats have been praised and respected because it has mobility, good gun depression with decent mantlet and a nasty 90mm gun with decent DPM and gun handling. However, it has tissue paper for armor and rarely if ever survives if pushed into a 1v1 brawl with most tanks in its spread apart from casemate TDs, and even then some of those can just delete you from the match with their HE rounds (SU/ISU-152s for example). Therefore this tank encourages you to be a shoot and scoot player; go after distracted targets from the side and rear, unload several 200 average alpha shots, and then either move in and secure the kill or move away once you see their guns turning towards you and repeat the process from a different angle.

 

Jackson trades the mobility for better armor. While not up to scratch for medium tank standards, at least you will be a difficult tank to one-shot with HE, and mobility wise it`s not that bad either. With some pre-planning you can reposition quickly enough to make a difference, and the armor allows you to play ersatz medium tank with 90mm gun in a pinch; DO NOT however, make that a habit as the poor side armor and slow turret rotation time can get you killed in a brawl against real medium tanks. Even so, I do think it still makes a nice pairing with mediums in a wolfpack, sniping any targets they spotted from a second-line position where you`re not too far away to get in there and provide direct support and share HP pool if needed, or pair up with heavies and provide flank protection. 

 

Another advantage to the turreted TDs is that they can move their turrets only and track targets without having to lose and reset camo, thus delaying detection by the red team.

 

As for German mediums, the VK 30.01P from my experience has good gun mantlet, good firepower with the 88mm, decent gun depression, and decent if unremarkable mobility; hull armor is kind of tricky to bounce shots with, as accurate players may not have problem penning your flat front upper and lower plates, but the angled nose may bounce from time to time.

VK 30.01D is basically a T-34 with German long 75mm gun with good DPM, mobility and gun depression, narrow turret front armor that is difficult to hit right and front armor that is angled and may lead to lucky bounces from time to time. However that armor can be penned even by Sherman`s 76mm gun with 128mm AP pen from direct front, so think of that armor as unreliable and play accordingly.

 

Both tanks have long, big sides and fat behinds though, so flank protection is key to avoid taking unnecessary damage, especially since VK 30.01P leads to Tiger (P) if I remember right with very similar chassis profile, much thicker front armor, slower mobility and great firepower with the long 88mm gun.

VK 30.01D leads to VK 30.02D with largely identical chassis profile, slightly thicker (but not much) front armor, slower mobility and the ability to use the 88mm L/56 (the short one) with better alpha contrasted by the long 75mm with better pen and DPM. Also slower turret rotation when using the turret with the 88mm.


"Fight to fly, fly to fight, FIGHT TO WIN!" - U.S Navy Fighter Weapons School TOPGUN.

 

"Nothing is right in tactics. A good fighter pilot must be free to propose improvements to his tactics or he will get himself killed." - Cmdr. Randy "Duke" Cunningham, USN.

 

"To be a good fighter pilot, there's only one prime requisite; Think Fast, and Act Faster" - John Trevor Godfrey, 336 Sqn RAF


__iTATi__ #8 Posted 02 May 2020 - 08:22 AM

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For many, the common consensus is to use the Firefly as a TD due to its accurate gun, relatively slow mobility and pathetic armor. I can see why they might say this but for me, I use it as a second line support behind other MTs. Its a little mean but if you can use others as a meat shield (taking the hits and the attention) and sit a little further back, you can have more of an influence on the game. 

 

This is not a MT in all intents and purposes, at least one that can brawl too effectively. Use its laser-like gun as much as possible and support either your MTs or HTs from medium range. I am running 69% in it at the moment but am not happy with the damage numbers I am getting in it. Once I have grinded the Challenger, this will be sold - not a keeper for me. 



BossArdnutz #9 Posted 03 May 2020 - 03:02 AM

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Also worth a look here: https://www.blitzsta...ia/Aky_Seargent

Look at your tanks in the table down the bottom. WN8 and WN7 are a kind of composite of damage, kills, spotting, survival etc, compared to other players - high values are better. DR is damage ratio, >1 means you do more damage than you take. KDR is kill to death ratio, 1 means you take a red tank with you each time you die,

doto #10 Posted 09 May 2020 - 03:01 AM

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I think the firefly is bad, but not overly bad.

Firefly's shots arrive to the target quickly, good pen, good reload, bad gun depression. I found it hard to play firefly against nashorn (tier 6 that can out dpm you), cromwell b (tier 6) & t-43 (tier 7)

 

The tank rarely needs repairing, so I bring adrenaline+multipurpose+engine boost instead of adrenaline+multipurpose+repair kit


Edited by doto, 09 May 2020 - 03:02 AM.


__iTATi__ #11 Posted 09 May 2020 - 10:24 AM

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View Postdoto, on 09 May 2020 - 03:01 AM, said:

I think the firefly is bad, but not overly bad.

Firefly's shots arrive to the target quickly, good pen, good reload, bad gun depression. I found it hard to play firefly against nashorn (tier 6 that can out dpm you), cromwell b (tier 6) & t-43 (tier 7)

 

The tank rarely needs repairing, so I bring adrenaline+multipurpose+engine boost instead of adrenaline+multipurpose+repair kit

Its not bad - it just has a bit of an identity crisis. It needs to make up its mind on whether its a MT or a fast-firing low alpha TD. It cannot brawl with most other MTs effectively thanks to below-par mobility, cruddy armour and what feels a very sluggish turret traverse. 

 

It is best served as second-line support a bit back from the other MTs or Hts. Failing that, due it as TD to make the most of its superb Lazer-like gun. 



Aky_Seargent #12 Posted 18 May 2020 - 11:50 AM

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Thanks everyone! I just got a whole lot of info on the tanks i drive. Today, i have grinded to the the Comet!!! One of Bushka's fav tanks,

so i know where to start to learn more about this tank. A week ago, i also have got the german medium(forgot its name), and the hellcat.

thanks for providing info on these tanks too!

:)


Edited by Aky_Seargent, 18 May 2020 - 11:51 AM.

"If you can, shoot at the rear, if you can't, shoot at the side. Don't bother with the front." 

- US Army General

Currently a UNICUM in the EU server(Formerly a SUPERUNICUM) (EU Server ID - TheMonk_74)


P36C #13 Posted 20 May 2020 - 10:12 PM

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Hmmm, the Firefly is definitely not easy to play, but the penetration is god like. If you load APCR, you will be punching through the front of Tier VII heavy tanks like they're cardboard, not that you'll need to though because its accuracy is blazing as well. The gun depression holds this tank back, but if it had gun depression it would be way too good. Tbh, with the buffs to the Tiger I and the Panther, the Firefly has increased in value because it is now the only Tier VI medium which can reliably take them out. So basically, a turreted TD-ish tank that can be inflexible, but will take on any target consistently. I like it and I still keep it :D


Edited by P36C, 20 May 2020 - 10:13 PM.


_RB_33_ #14 Posted 29 June 2020 - 05:03 PM

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A bit late into the party here. The Firefly is definitely not an easy tank to use but it is certainly very satisfying to win with IMHO.





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