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update 6.8


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Wolfgang_Kopp #1 Posted 07 February 2020 - 10:25 AM

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Saw this one today 

Looks like a lot of changes again. But I agree to make the T92E1 a bit more vulnerable.

 


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TnkDztroyer #2 Posted 08 February 2020 - 01:34 AM

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Yep, they never seem to get it right the first time, ever. now WG please nerf the Leo and buff the KV-1 and I'll be happy!  :)

Edited by TnkDztroyer, 08 February 2020 - 01:37 AM.

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DieWithYourBootsOn #3 Posted 08 February 2020 - 10:01 AM

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View PostTnkDztroyer, on 08 February 2020 - 01:34 AM, said:

Yep, they never seem to get it right the first time, ever. now WG please nerf the Leo and buff the KV-1 and I'll be happy!  :)


Oh, and take that Tier 5 Leopard down a notch or 2 also!

Oh, wait. I guess you were referring to that "Leo" and not the Tier 10. Well, that puts us in agreement, then! :honoring:



TnkDztroyer #4 Posted 08 February 2020 - 10:10 AM

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Indeed I was!  :) and players platoon with them and they act like wolf packs!

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erwin10001 #5 Posted 11 February 2020 - 12:38 AM

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View PostTnkDztroyer, on 08 February 2020 - 01:34 AM, said:

Yep, they never seem to get it right the first time, ever. now WG please nerf the Leo and buff the KV-1 and I'll be happy!  :)

 

I thought you said that T1 heavy have no problem easily killing Leos? If Leo is nerfed than T1 becomes OP? (I'll switch to T1 Heavy if Leo is nerfed lol)

 

You mentioned in another thread that you started playing Leo, so whats your current winrate on Leo and number of games played? If its so OP your Leo winrate should be higher than your tier 5 Matilda winrate?



TnkDztroyer #6 Posted 11 February 2020 - 01:28 AM

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View Posterwin10001, on 11 February 2020 - 10:38 AM, said:

 

I thought you said that T1 heavy have no problem easily killing Leos? If Leo is nerfed than T1 becomes OP? (I'll switch to T1 Heavy if Leo is nerfed lol)

 

You mentioned in another thread that you started playing Leo, so whats your current winrate on Leo and number of games played? If its so OP your Leo winrate should be higher than your tier 5 Matilda winrate?

 

That doesn't follow, because they have different playstyles. Matilda is slow with armour and Leo is fast and without armour. and if Leo is not OP, then why are so many players playing it? Leo's seem to have a lot of killing power. I only got the Leo to get the VK line. I played only 15 games (wr 53.33%) then used free exp to upgrade it and research the two VK's. Matilda wr is currently 66.44%

 

 


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BossArdnutz #7 Posted 11 February 2020 - 02:18 AM

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I don't think the Leo is particularly over powered.

I think the T1 Heavy is borderline broken though. I'm a 52% overall player and I'm at something like 70% in the T1. That's not me, that's the tank.

erwin10001 #8 Posted 12 February 2020 - 03:48 AM

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Look at that T1 Heavy winrate. If i recall, WG does look at winrates to decide whether to nerf or buff so I guess Leo is still safe.

 

Agree that a lot of players are playing Leo, but popularity doesn't necessarily mean its OP, it might mean its easier to use compared to T1 Heavy.

 

Beginners usually have no clue how to use armor of HT, things like sidescrape, angling, are all alien to them. But in the hands of a good player, T1 is dangerous.

 


Edited by erwin10001, 12 February 2020 - 04:00 AM.


TnkDztroyer #9 Posted 12 February 2020 - 04:53 AM

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View Posterwin10001, on 12 February 2020 - 01:48 PM, said:

 

Look at that T1 Heavy winrate. If i recall, WG does look at winrates to decide whether to nerf or buff so I guess Leo is still safe.

 

Agree that a lot of players are playing Leo, but popularity doesn't necessarily mean its OP, it might mean its easier to use compared to T1 Heavy.

 

Beginners usually have no clue how to use armor of HT, things like sidescrape, angling, are all alien to them. But in the hands of a good player, T1 is dangerous.

 

 

hehe... be afraid.. be very afraid... (just kidding!) :)

 


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aazim #10 Posted 12 February 2020 - 11:42 AM

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View Posterwin10001, on 12 February 2020 - 03:48 AM, said:

 

Look at that T1 Heavy winrate. If i recall, WG does look at winrates to decide whether to nerf or buff so I guess Leo is still safe.

 

Agree that a lot of players are playing Leo, but popularity doesn't necessarily mean its OP, it might mean its easier to use compared to T1 Heavy.

 

Beginners usually have no clue how to use armor of HT, things like sidescrape, angling, are all alien to them. But in the hands of a good player, T1 is dangerous.

 

 

This really shows leo need a slight buff especially to pen



BossArdnutz #11 Posted 12 February 2020 - 09:05 PM

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Also shows they need to nerf the T1's armour - if not all the way back to where it used to be, maybe half way there. Especially the side armour. They ruined the KV-1 by stripping off half its side armour, then made the T1 into a monster by buffing its side armour, I cannot work out what they were trying to achieve at all. T1 side armour is now thicker than KV-1 front armour, its front armour is far thicker and has fewer and smaller weak spots, it has more DPM and pen, better gun handling... KV-1 has a very slight advantage in mobility and that's all. 

 

Edit:  actually, I don't think the Leo needs a buff at all, I think it's perfectly balanced or even a little strong. It's average damage per battle  is 640 out of a DPM of 1,565. Compare that to the Crusader, which has a DPM of 1,613 (with a high pen also, 130mm, better than both KV-1 and T1 Heavy). You'd expect the Crusader, with higher DPM and better pen, to have higher average damage, right? Wrong. Crusader only averages 573 damage per battle. Its win rate, spots and survival are all lower than Leo too. The KV-1 does worse than the Leo for everything except survival. The real standout is, again, the T1 Heavy which is massively overpowered, especially in the hands of a good player - look at the relative win rate curves and you can see this quite clearly. 


Edited by BossArdnutz, 12 February 2020 - 09:38 PM.


DieWithYourBootsOn #12 Posted 13 February 2020 - 12:39 PM

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View Postaazim, on 12 February 2020 - 11:42 AM, said:

View Posterwin10001, on 12 February 2020 - 03:48 AM, said:

 

Look at that T1 Heavy winrate. If i recall, WG does look at winrates to decide whether to nerf or buff so I guess Leo is still safe.

 

Agree that a lot of players are playing Leo, but popularity doesn't necessarily mean its OP, it might mean its easier to use compared to T1 Heavy.

 

Beginners usually have no clue how to use armor of HT, things like sidescrape, angling, are all alien to them. But in the hands of a good player, T1 is dangerous.

 

 

This really shows leo need a slight buff especially to pen

These conclusions are not entirely accurate, because you're looking at 90 day stats and it hasn't been that long since the Leo got it's buff, has it? The Leo seems the strongest Tier V now that it has the extra burst rounds, at least in the games I play. It can do like 280 damage in 1 shot load, which is way more than the other Tier V lights/meds can do.



erwin10001 #13 Posted 14 February 2020 - 05:36 AM

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View PostDieWithYourBootsOn, on 13 February 2020 - 12:39 PM, said:

These conclusions are not entirely accurate, because you're looking at 90 day stats and it hasn't been that long since the Leo got it's buff, has it? The Leo seems the strongest Tier V now that it has the extra burst rounds, at least in the games I play. It can do like 280 damage in 1 shot load, which is way more than the other Tier V lights/meds can do.

 

Leo was buffed 15/16 October 2019. Its already February 2020, more than 90 days.

 

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TnkDztroyer #14 Posted 15 February 2020 - 03:19 AM

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View PostDieWithYourBootsOn, on 13 February 2020 - 10:39 PM, said:

These conclusions are not entirely accurate, because you're looking at 90 day stats and it hasn't been that long since the Leo got it's buff, has it? The Leo seems the strongest Tier V now that it has the extra burst rounds, at least in the games I play. It can do like 280 damage in 1 shot load, which is way more than the other Tier V lights/meds can do.

 

yep. leos are very destructive. they have a lot of 'killing power'. more than many/most tanks in tier 5.


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BossArdnutz #15 Posted 15 February 2020 - 09:06 AM

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It's not that destructive. 6/41 tier V tanks for raw DPM, but 3rd last for pen and 2nd last for pen loss over distance, which together with burst firing dispersion makes for very reduced long-range firepower. The DPM comes in the form of 300hp burst damage, which sounds great but requires all shots to hit and pen. Given movement, dispersion, the slow turret, and the long exposure time involved that's pretty hard to achieve.

Handling is good, except for the really slow turret rotation, and only 4 degrees of gun depression, 3rd worst in the tier (which tank has even less than that, I wonder?)

Mobility is the real advantage of the Leo, best in class.

TnkDztroyer #16 Posted 15 February 2020 - 12:03 PM

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View PostBossArdnutz, on 15 February 2020 - 07:06 PM, said:

It's not that destructive. 6/41 tier V tanks for raw DPM, but 3rd last for pen and 2nd last for pen loss over distance, which together with burst firing dispersion makes for very reduced long-range firepower. The DPM comes in the form of 300hp burst damage, which sounds great but requires all shots to hit and pen. Given movement, dispersion, the slow turret, and the long exposure time involved that's pretty hard to achieve.
Handling is good, except for the really slow turret rotation, and only 4 degrees of gun depression, 3rd worst in the tier (which tank has even less than that, I wonder?)
Mobility is the real advantage of the Leo, best in class.

 

But a lot of that is negated by their speed, because what I see in games is that they will zoom up to tanks and shoot them point blank, then dash away to another target. it's not like they have to sit in one spot turning their turret looking for a shot. but I've noticed if they do stay in one spot and snipe they usually get killed fairly easily. like if i'm is a HT, as I usually am, and one is poking out and shooting at me, I will always get him with a shot in the time he takes to fire his magazine, and it only takes two or three hits to kill him, so if he's silly enough to play that poke and shoot game against a HT, he will almost invariably lose. but if they play the hit and run game, they will almost always pen with six shots, from what I see.

 


Edited by TnkDztroyer, 15 February 2020 - 12:39 PM.

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BossArdnutz #17 Posted 16 February 2020 - 12:30 AM

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Unless you're driving something like the T1 Heavy, in which case you'll bounce almost everything unless they achieve a 90° angle on your side or use prammo, in which case their damage will drop significantly. As you say, the Leo's weakness in damage output is balanced by mobility, but I think the stats show it is exactly that - balanced.

Bear in mind mobility is an advantage that the opposing players can take away; engine and tracking hits spell doom for the hit and run Leo driver. I suspect it may even be worth shooting HE at them, to increase the chances of tracking even on a non-pen hit.

TnkDztroyer #18 Posted 16 February 2020 - 03:59 AM

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View PostBossArdnutz, on 16 February 2020 - 10:30 AM, said:

Unless you're driving something like the T1 Heavy, in which case you'll bounce almost everything unless they achieve a 90° angle on your side or use prammo, in which case their damage will drop significantly. As you say, the Leo's weakness in damage output is balanced by mobility, but I think the stats show it is exactly that - balanced.

Bear in mind mobility is an advantage that the opposing players can take away; engine and tracking hits spell doom for the hit and run Leo driver. I suspect it may even be worth shooting HE at them, to increase the chances of tracking even on a non-pen hit.

 

I tend to forget about HE because when I've used it, it doesn't seem to do anything, even though it's supposed to do a lot of damage, and I shoot at the yellow part. ??? I'll give it a try on Leos tho and see what happens.

 


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