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PANPAKAPAAAN2427 #1 Posted 09 January 2019 - 04:05 PM

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Simple topic where you can post replays where you snatched defeat from the jaws of victory and need help on how you can avoid it happening again or just need help in understanding what went wrong and why it went wrong. Maybe you find yourself in situations where you are put at a disadvantage and don't know what you can do to level the playing field.

 

Post your replays here and ask for help heck you can even ask someone to help you learn something (be it basic techniques like side scraping to good positions on maps for your tank type/ where your tank type is at a disadvantage) in a private training room.      


Edited by PANPAKAPAAAN2427, 09 January 2019 - 04:06 PM.

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PANPAKAPAAAN2427 #2 Posted 09 January 2019 - 04:17 PM

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First one is this. 

Near the end I am in a 1v1 against a low healthed Flack Bus. I notice the player set up a trap but I pull a noob move and played into the players hand. After the battle I thought I should have tried flanking or do something to force the player out from the spot. But during the battle I crumbled by the pressure of carrying my team which lead to the noob move. What should have I done in this situation?  


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BossArdnutz #3 Posted 09 January 2019 - 08:30 PM

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Great topic! What made you decide to turn back from the cap?

TnkCmndrToo #4 Posted 09 January 2019 - 08:32 PM

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Tough game there! 

 

I think it's a great idea to have a 'Feedback Forum' specifically for this. Now, to your game:

 

The first thing you have done is correct - you identified you have made a mistake, which is the first step to getting better.

 

As far as your team goes, they were not exactly helpful: 'Cap', 'Don't cap', 'Run'... yeah. I feel for you. But sometimes we just have to ignore the chat unless someone's giving useful advice - which was not happening there lol. So don't feel too pressurised, the team wasn't being of any help.

 

Gameplay critique:

 

1. I was surprised to see that you were not loading HE to shoot the Flak Toaster. This was an error, but an easily excused one, as in the heat of battle I often forget to switch ammo too :) the Flak Toaster is one of the few targets you should load HE for every time.

 

2. You are correct in that you should not have driven out to try get a shot (again, identifying your mistakes - you know exactly what you did wrong, which is very good). Whenever you're in a situation like that - a red is pre-aiming a shot and you have to come out from behind cover to hit him - you will ALWAYS lose! 999/1000 times, you will not be quick enough.

 

3. Instead, you try this. 

  1. Wait behind cover for 10 seconds to reset camo and disappear off the radar (I saw you do this earlier, nice going :) )
  2. Point your gun straight ahead and drive out sideways so that just the tip of your gun pokes out from cover (this will spot the red, but he will spot you). This move should confuse him.
  3. Reset camo again. Now you strike! Flank the enemy.
  4. In this particular case, you could have moved onto the bridge to the left after putting the shot into him, moved along the bridge, turned left and reset camo before looping around and appearing on his right to his rear. Positioning yourself just behind the small hill behind him, you could have used the 10 degrees of gun depression to get the kill shot into him.

 

See the picture or a visual representation - green is your kill shot, red box is the Flak Bus, white arrow is you, blue line is the ridge. The break in the arrow is to show where you should have reset camo.

 

 Posted Image

 

The alternative was to rush down as fast as possible after he missed his shot - his engine was damaged and you might have been able to CoD him, especially if you tracked him on the way in (he didn't appear to have a repair kit, hence the still-damaged engine). However, you'd need to be pretty good at brawling for that, but with a damaged engine, it wouldn't have been too hard.

 

Hope this helps :)


Edited by TnkCmndrToo, 09 January 2019 - 08:38 PM.


TnkCmndrToo #5 Posted 09 January 2019 - 08:32 PM

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View PostBossArdnutz, on 10 January 2019 - 08:30 AM, said:

Great topic! What made you decide to turn back from the cap?

 

The Leo saying 'No cap' :D  I don't think capping would have helped, though, the Toaster could have easily out-DPMed him and killed him in a hitpoint trade.

Edited by TnkCmndrToo, 09 January 2019 - 08:33 PM.


TnkCmndrToo #6 Posted 09 January 2019 - 08:35 PM

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Um... how do you attach a pic?

 

EDIT: got it :P


Edited by TnkCmndrToo, 09 January 2019 - 08:37 PM.


PANPAKAPAAAN2427 #7 Posted 09 January 2019 - 09:57 PM

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View PostTnkCmndrToo, on 09 January 2019 - 08:32 PM, said:

Tough game there! 

 

I think it's a great idea to have a 'Feedback Forum' specifically for this. Now, to your game:

 

The first thing you have done is correct - you identified you have made a mistake, which is the first step to getting better.

 

As far as your team goes, they were not exactly helpful: 'Cap', 'Don't cap', 'Run'... yeah. I feel for you. But sometimes we just have to ignore the chat unless someone's giving useful advice - which was not happening there lol. So don't feel too pressurised, the team wasn't being of any help.

 

Gameplay critique:

 

1. I was surprised to see that you were not loading HE to shoot the Flak Toaster. This was an error, but an easily excused one, as in the heat of battle I often forget to switch ammo too :) the Flak Toaster is one of the few targets you should load HE for every time.

 

2. You are correct in that you should not have driven out to try get a shot (again, identifying your mistakes - you know exactly what you did wrong, which is very good). Whenever you're in a situation like that - a red is pre-aiming a shot and you have to come out from behind cover to hit him - you will ALWAYS lose! 999/1000 times, you will not be quick enough.

 

3. Instead, you try this. 

  1. Wait behind cover for 10 seconds to reset camo and disappear off the radar (I saw you do this earlier, nice going :) )
  2. Point your gun straight ahead and drive out sideways so that just the tip of your gun pokes out from cover (this will spot the red, but he will spot you). This move should confuse him.
  3. Reset camo again. Now you strike! Flank the enemy.
  4. In this particular case, you could have moved onto the bridge to the left after putting the shot into him, moved along the bridge, turned left and reset camo before looping around and appearing on his right to his rear. Positioning yourself just behind the small hill behind him, you could have used the 10 degrees of gun depression to get the kill shot into him.

 

See the picture or a visual representation - green is your kill shot, red box is the Flak Bus, white arrow is you, blue line is the ridge. The break in the arrow is to show where you should have reset camo.

 

 Posted Image

 

The alternative was to rush down as fast as possible after he missed his shot - his engine was damaged and you might have been able to CoD him, especially if you tracked him on the way in (he didn't appear to have a repair kit, hence the still-damaged engine). However, you'd need to be pretty good at brawling for that, but with a damaged engine, it wouldn't have been too hard.

 

Hope this helps :)

Thanks. The visual representation helped a lot. What about breaking contact to set up an ambush in one of the bushes near the cap? (Orange lines) 

  It gambles on the fact the the Flack Bus would take the obvious two routes to the cap and not flank around any of the spawns but I should be able to spot first if the player does take the route into the cap. 


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TnkCmndrToo #8 Posted 09 January 2019 - 10:39 PM

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View PostPANPAKAPAAAN2427, on 10 January 2019 - 09:57 AM, said:

Thanks. The visual representation helped a lot. What about breaking contact to set up an ambush in one of the bushes near the cap? (Orange lines) 

  It gambles on the fact the the Flack Bus would take the obvious two routes to the cap and not flank around any of the spawns but I should be able to spot first if the player does take the route into the cap. 

 

That could work - but there are too many variables, as you correctly pointed out. He might chase you and kill you before you get into position (especially if you go to the position on the right), or flank you as you described.

 

 IMO the two best ways to do it are either flank from behind as I pointed out, or push and brawl. The way I see it, that way you control the pace of play and fight it on your terms instead of relying on the enemy to make your plan work.

 

That being said, though, there are a lot of ways to win a scenario like this - but it's always easier in hindsight :)



__Grifter__ #9 Posted 10 January 2019 - 01:50 AM

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That Leo saying 'Dont Cap' obviously has no clue. Capping there would not be trying to cap for the win, but would be forcing the red toaster out of his nice little spot down there. Not saying that capping would have been the optimum play but it would have been a better option compared to fighting on the toasters terms.

 

I would have probably gone past the cap (from when you originally went to cap) and flanked wide round the right side near where Green base 2 is. You may get a surprise shot on him if he is still sat where he is or you may get lucky to spot him from behind moving up the hill. 



erwin10001 #10 Posted 10 January 2019 - 02:42 AM

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for the very last shot, you could have tried something complicated like go around etc. that probably would have worked.

 

but the mistake was that you did not reset camo before pushing on him for the 1 shot kill, so the flakbus saw you moving and could line up the shot. if you reset camo and suddenly popped up, you had an even chance that you would have surprised him enough that you could fire first.

 

but before you do that, there is a 'dirty trick' that many pros use. They know they are spotted, so they move in a backward and forward motion for at least 5 seconds as if they are going to pop up in front of the red tank.

 

If the red tank is under pressure because his team is screaming at him, he might fall for your back and forth movement and fire too early, giving you a low-risk win. Try this back and forth movement, you'll be surprised how many red tanks fire too early. Of course you were pointing downhill, so a back and forth movement on a slope could be risky if you dont' calculate correctly and roll too far down the hill.

 

 

 



__Grifter__ #11 Posted 10 January 2019 - 03:11 AM

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View Posterwin10001, on 10 January 2019 - 02:42 AM, said:

for the very last shot, you could have tried something complicated like go around etc. that probably would have worked.

 

but the mistake was that you did not reset camo before pushing on him for the 1 shot kill, so the flakbus saw you moving and could line up the shot. if you reset camo and suddenly popped up, you had an even chance that you would have surprised him enough that you could fire first.

 

but before you do that, there is a 'dirty trick' that many pros use. They know they are spotted, so they move in a backward and forward motion for at least 5 seconds as if they are going to pop up in front of the red tank.

 

If the red tank is under pressure because his team is screaming at him, he might fall for your back and forth movement and fire too early, giving you a low-risk win. Try this back and forth movement, you'll be surprised how many red tanks fire too early. Of course you were pointing downhill, so a back and forth movement on a slope could be risky if you dont' calculate correctly and roll too far down the hill.

 

 

 

 

Baiting for the shot could have worked.

 

I just feel that you have to use your tanks strengths in a close 1 v 1 like this. View range for one. Get wider and keep him guessing as to where you actually are.



BossArdnutz #12 Posted 10 January 2019 - 06:38 AM

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How about this one?

 

 

Replay is on WOTInspector here: https://replays.woti...c92b12ff11835ed

 

I can think of a few things I did wrong already...

 

1) I didn't realise the Scavenger was AFK, so when I looked over and saw the red T-34-85 taking damage and engaged with the Scavenger, I assumed it was from the Scav and that he had things well in hand; actually the damage was from our T-34-85 and the Scav died a moment later, leaving me with a big problem from that red MT.

 

2) I lost track of our team losses and the scoreboard, so I didn't realise the urgency of our situation until too late.

 

3) I lost track of the surviving green SU-100Y, so when I ended up with reds on 3 sides of me I basically panicked and didn't know what to do. If I'd realised I still had fire support on my right, maybe I could have baited one of the reds in front of the SU?

 

4) I spent too much time dithering and waiting for either the T-34-85 or the Pz. IV S. to wander in front of my gun, maybe I should have gone after the Pz. earlier?

 

Anyway, what do you think?



aazim #13 Posted 10 January 2019 - 07:51 PM

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View PostBossArdnutz, on 10 January 2019 - 06:38 AM, said:

How about this one?

 

 

Replay is on WOTInspector here: https://replays.woti...c92b12ff11835ed

 

I can think of a few things I did wrong already...

 

1) I didn't realise the Scavenger was AFK, so when I looked over and saw the red T-34-85 taking damage and engaged with the Scavenger, I assumed it was from the Scav and that he had things well in hand; actually the damage was from our T-34-85 and the Scav died a moment later, leaving me with a big problem from that red MT.

 

2) I lost track of our team losses and the scoreboard, so I didn't realise the urgency of our situation until too late.

 

3) I lost track of the surviving green SU-100Y, so when I ended up with reds on 3 sides of me I basically panicked and didn't know what to do. If I'd realised I still had fire support on my right, maybe I could have baited one of the reds in front of the SU?

 

4) I spent too much time dithering and waiting for either the T-34-85 or the Pz. IV S. to wander in front of my gun, maybe I should have gone after the Pz. earlier?

 

Anyway, what do you think?

 

Most obvious thing to me, is you fail to prioritize which tank you should shoot. You just shoot tanks that drive in front of your gun. ALWAYS aware which tank your team is dealing with and help them. awareness is the most important key to winning imo

BossArdnutz #14 Posted 10 January 2019 - 09:30 PM

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That makes sense. I guess I tend to have a priority list in mind of red tanks that are most dangerous,  LTs (for spotting) then derp guns (for 1-hit killing)... anything low on HP that I can knock out in a single shot.  I had the KV-1S as a priority until I realised he didn't have the big gun. If I understand what you're saying,  I need to adjust that list based on how the battle develops? Should I be looking to hit the same tanks as team mates,  or is it better to try and hit tanks that are shooting at team mates?



Watching the replay on wotinspector was interesting,  I was actually less aware of the battle than I had thought,  in particular I missed the deaths of the T-34/85 and KV-2. I'd have been quicker to go after the Pz. IV S. if I'd spotted those death messages.

Diamond114 #15 Posted 11 January 2019 - 03:41 AM

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View PostBossArdnutz, on 11 January 2019 - 06:30 AM, said:

That makes sense. I guess I tend to have a priority list in mind of red tanks that are most dangerous, LTs (for spotting) then derp guns (for 1-hit killing)... anything low on HP that I can knock out in a single shot. I had the KV-1S as a priority until I realised he didn't have the big gun. If I understand what you're saying, I need to adjust that list based on how the battle develops? Should I be looking to hit the same tanks as team mates, or is it better to try and hit tanks that are shooting at team mates?



Watching the replay on wotinspector was interesting, I was actually less aware of the battle than I had thought, in particular I missed the deaths of the T-34/85 and KV-2. I'd have been quicker to go after the Pz. IV S. if I'd spotted those death messages.

 

Low health tanks and distracted/ injured tanks are most definitely tanks you need to hit fast. Otherwise tanks you know have nasty guns and IGN that you recognize as good players.

 

I was on Faust, Tier IX maximum, Encounter, in the Type 59, a few patches back. At start of game everyone else went to the C and D flag area. However our Chieftain/ T95 headed down the medium side. I followed the Chieftain instead, intending to give him some escort. I didn't pay attention to the rest of my team, all I know is they rolled over the reds on their flank. Me and the Chieftain spotted the Cent 7/1 and WZ-120, and we went to the lower ground. As expected, the WZ-120 couldn't do jack because he has the 122mm gun. Managed to track and damage the Cent 7/1 but my reload wasn't fast, so he got away momentarily. WZ-120 then decided to YOLO us, and we gave him a good spanking until the Cent himself appeared to our front as I checked our back, worried that he might've flanked as were we in an open area (he could've flanked, don't know why he didn't). We were wary of the Cent from the moment we spotted him thinking he had the 105mm gun, but upon seeing his damage to me at low 200-ish alpha, I immediately realized that the Cent had the 20 pounder instead, an also upon seeing the WZ barely scratching the Chieftain's turret armor and at half-health himself, I quickly made the decision that the WZ must die first so we can then take the Cent together; we still have 3/4 of our health or better at that time. So we cleared the WZ with just three shots between the two of us, and now the Cent has to go through me and the Chieftain. He was firing as fast as he can, but his damage is too low to clear me quickly, me and the Cent combined had potential of 480-540 alpha to his 180-220 alpha, he bounced his second to last shot on my turret, and at that last moment as well the Chieftain flanked him, forcing him to switch his focus to the Chieftain, allowing me to take one last hit as I surged forward of the Chieftain and slammed the killing shot to his lower glacis. I had barely 100 health, Chieftain still has half his health, and we both just took out the red's top tier mediums.


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PANPAKAPAAAN2427 #16 Posted 12 January 2019 - 09:45 PM

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Bloody hell. That is one flaccid tank my dude. 

 

On another note can someone show me where are good mid-long sniping spots on maps for the Panther? I did some research on the tank and sniping looks like its Modus Operandi.

 

And should I get the KWK 75 L/100 or 8.8cm 36 L/56? 

 

I forgot to the add: What equipment should I use. 


Edited by PANPAKAPAAAN2427, 12 January 2019 - 09:53 PM.

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TnkCmndrToo #17 Posted 12 January 2019 - 10:34 PM

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View PostPANPAKAPAAAN2427, on 13 January 2019 - 09:45 AM, said:

Bloody hell. That is one flaccid tank my dude. 

 

On another note can someone show me where are good mid-long sniping spots on maps for the Panther? I did some research on the tank and sniping looks like its Modus Operandi.

 

And should I get the KWK 75 L/100 or 8.8cm 36 L/56? 

 

I forgot to the add: What equipment should I use. 

 

Definitely the 7.5 cm gun - its got the DPM, the pen, and the accuracy. Equipment would probably be rammer, either of the first vitality slots, enhanced optics, gun laying drive, enhanced armour, engine boost, refined gun, toolbox, and high-end consumables. TBH the only must-have ones are rammer, toolbox, and refined gun. You can play around with the rest depending on your preferences.

PANPAKAPAAAN2427 #18 Posted 24 January 2019 - 04:18 PM

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Is the T-54 a good tank? I can use a tier IX certificate to get it 50% off. I wen't through the T-54 Ltwt. and was saving the certificate for the Conqueror.

 

Also Which gun works better on the SP IC? The second top gun or the auto loader.     


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TnkCmndrToo #19 Posted 24 January 2019 - 10:37 PM

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View PostPANPAKAPAAAN2427, on 25 January 2019 - 04:18 AM, said:

Is the T-54 a good tank? I can use a tier IX certificate to get it 50% off. I wen't through the T-54 Ltwt. and was saving the certificate for the Conqueror.

 

Also Which gun works better on the SP IC? The second top gun or the auto loader.     

 

T-54 is a very good tank, great all-rounder. Stock grind is painful though, but that's a general tier 9 med thing. For the SP I C, either works. I recommend you experiment and see which you like.

Diamond114 #20 Posted 25 January 2019 - 12:07 PM

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View PostPANPAKAPAAAN2427, on 25 January 2019 - 01:18 AM, said:

Also Which gun works better on the SP IC? The second top gun or the auto loader.     

It depends. I like using my lights as a fast assault tank occasionally, so I use the single-shot gun as it gives you a more consistent DPM.

If you use the autoloader, make damn sure whoever you're shooting at looks away from you completely and don't get into brawls.


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"To be a good fighter pilot, there's only one prime requisite; Think Fast, and Act Faster" - John Trevor Godfrey, 336 Sqn RAF





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