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Neb10k #1 Posted 25 September 2018 - 11:15 AM

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Is anyone willing to argue that MM is not rigged after the last update?

 

Complete joke.

 

Under Tier all the time, given AFKs and begginers.

 

 

 



2OLD2CARE #2 Posted 25 September 2018 - 01:05 PM

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View PostNeb10k, on 25 September 2018 - 11:15 AM, said:

Is anyone willing to argue that MM is not rigged after the last update?

 

Complete joke.

 

Under Tier all the time, given AFKs and begginers.

 

 

 

No - it is not broken - it is exactly the way they want it !!!



JamesJoyce #3 Posted 25 September 2018 - 01:21 PM

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I remember with a heavy heart, the time when I complained about it (under different username) and when I was put down systematically by the WG Loyalist Lobby of this forum.

Because their vanity was offended about the questionable merit they had in their WR.

 

Let's hear what they have to say now... is it whining, - or is MM now so broken that even the Loyalists can't deny it?!

Do they feel me now? LOL



JamesJoyce #4 Posted 25 September 2018 - 01:56 PM

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OK, seriously now... 

I think it is both rigged and broken.

Why, because the algorithm they use was designed to "cut the booze" with 10% distilled water, assuming a much higher number in the player base and also a higher average skill level and winning potential making up for enough influence of individual players over win or loss (a certain number of them only). But now, with both - a decreasing player base and a MUCH lower average skill level, the algorithm makes it's influence look utterly broken, to not say absurd. I mean, if your team consists mainly and most of the time of 36-45% WR players, from which at least one is AFK in almost every game, you HAVE to conclude that it can't be right.

I did point it out before: You cannot have a shitload of way under 50% players (either in your team or in the whole game), without having an equivalent number of notably over 50% as well! It is mathematically impossible! EVEN if the veterans or those who may still have a much higher WR statistically, do not play anymore - it doesn't matter, because the WR of those 36-45% was created and is maintained by the current and actually active player base - only recently! Which then must have an equivalent number of over 50% at the same moment in time! Except indeed if the players with much higher WR would play much less. Which is very unlikely, as you need to play many games and frequently to learn the trade. 

 


Edited by JamesJoyce, 25 September 2018 - 01:58 PM.


Fosknow #5 Posted 25 September 2018 - 11:27 PM

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MM has always been unfair.

premium players get better MM.

players with high win rate always get bad teams.

these guys posting videos on YouTube are premium players, they should not b3 allowed to post videos. I have had these guys on my teams numerous times and the6 do noth8ng. I would love to post their names but that would g3 naming and shaming.

betrer for them to not post their useless videos.


How bold you are from afar.


The_Gaffer #6 Posted 26 September 2018 - 03:22 AM

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View PostFosknow, on 26 September 2018 - 09:27 AM, said:

premium players get better MM.

players with high win rate always get bad teams.

 

So, premium players with high win rates get better MM and always get bad teams. :D 


"It's the job that's never started as takes longest to finish."

 


Gandalf__Greyhame #7 Posted 26 September 2018 - 05:37 AM

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View PostFosknow, on 25 September 2018 - 11:27 PM, said:

MM has always been unfair.

premium players get better MM.

players with high win rate always get bad teams.

these guys posting videos on YouTube are premium players, they should not b3 allowed to post videos. I have had these guys on my teams numerous times and the6 do noth8ng. I would love to post their names but that would g3 naming and shaming.

betrer for them to not post their useless videos.

 

View PostThe_Gaffer, on 26 September 2018 - 03:22 AM, said:

 

So, premium players with high win rates get better MM and always get bad teams. :D 

 

Noob , you din't understand as usual . The MM which premium players get is better when compared to non premium players . Now there are some players with very high win rate . These players get bad teams . This is done to reduce their Win rate . So now if player who has high win rate and is a premium player he will get ...... okay now I see your point . Yeh sorry I can't defend this :confused:

Edited by Gandalf__Greyhame, 26 September 2018 - 05:38 AM.

                                                                

 

   


JamesJoyce #8 Posted 26 September 2018 - 09:11 AM

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No, no... it's not as simple as that. High WR players do not (necessarily) get bad MM or are flogged with incredible RNG. It's rather the opposite. 

WG wants higher WR players as they serve as model and example for the recruits and advancing players. My catch on it is that whatever algorithm is in place,

it is designed to "put you at your place" in order to invest in the game. It is as simple as that.

 

The problem as described earlier is that the conditions, the "so called meta" of the game has changed and that the algorithm is now inappropriate

and too severe. 

 

All players with higher or really high WR all know that you have to outrun the system, in order to get even 60%. 

Very methodical players (once they have understood how to proceed), do that by routine.. often unaware of what they do is in fact cheating the cheater.

Other players who have another understanding of "fun", will of course be punished under the present conditions, which I would refer to as a changing meta with the same algorithm.

 

Is WG aware of the fact that more and more players are discontent with the "randomness" of MM, are they going to do something about it?

They better should, because it is no fun whatsoever - and it is the number one reason why players (who get aware) do quit.


Edited by JamesJoyce, 26 September 2018 - 09:12 AM.


__Noobieman #9 Posted 26 September 2018 - 09:50 AM

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What about how long it is now taking to start a match, often around the 2 minute mark when there are heaps of players waiting.

Edited by __Noobieman, 26 September 2018 - 09:51 AM.


TinDingo #10 Posted 26 September 2018 - 11:13 AM

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I wonder...

If the MM and RNG were completely fair, would it be correct to expect that every competent player would have, say, >=55% win rate, the good players >=65% and the really good players >=75%, with the new and chronically bad players providing a balancing effect with lower win rates?

I am not an expert in this field so if anyone is, please comment.


Every system is perfectly designed to produce exactly the results that it produces


Neb10k #11 Posted 26 September 2018 - 01:08 PM

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View PostTinDingo, on 26 September 2018 - 11:13 AM, said:

I wonder...

If the MM and RNG were completely fair, would it be correct to expect that every competent player would have, say, >=55% win rate, the good players >=65% and the really good players >=75%, with the new and chronically bad players providing a balancing effect with lower win rates?

I am not an expert in this field so if anyone is, please comment.

 

Makes sense, new accounts would make up many losing battles, with enough newbies that would allow high WRs for some players.

 

i reckon the algorithm has been loaded against high WR players below tier VII. Then you will be lower tier and given the dregs as team mates.



JamesJoyce #12 Posted 26 September 2018 - 01:14 PM

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View PostTinDingo, on 26 September 2018 - 11:13 AM, said:

I wonder...

If the MM and RNG were completely fair, would it be correct to expect that every competent player would have, say, >=55% win rate, the good players >=65% and the really good players >=75%, with the new and chronically bad players providing a balancing effect with lower win rates?

I am not an expert in this field so if anyone is, please comment.

 

You could say that! My guess is even higher than that, on average. And those who now run on 38-44, should not have more than 25-32 in reality - or eve less... 

On another note, never underestimate those 48% (or any slightly under 50%) players these days... ;)

Some of them are way better players than many 50+, who consigned their souls to get there! 

I am no expert either in how rigging works in Blitz, I mean who is except the programmers themselves, but I have been watching this long enough so I can put 2 and 2 together. 



Short__Round #13 Posted 26 September 2018 - 01:19 PM

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View PostNeb10k, on 26 September 2018 - 11:08 PM, said:

i reckon the algorithm has been loaded against high WR players below tier VII. Then you will be lower tier and given the dregs as team mates.

 

What counts as high? Above 70%? Above 60%?

 

There must be a number of battles played threshold as well I’m sure. Tier 5 and 6 are as easy as ever with a low battle count and below that it’s of course ridiculously easy.



JamesJoyce #14 Posted 26 September 2018 - 01:28 PM

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View PostNeb10k, on 26 September 2018 - 01:08 PM, said:

 

Makes sense, new accounts would make up many losing battles, with enough newbies that would allow high WRs for some players.

 

i reckon the algorithm has been loaded against high WR players below tier VII. Then you will be lower tier and given the dregs as team mates.

 

Well, that WOULD have been the case until recently (still valid probably), but will change with time due to the change of 5.3

If I am not mistaken, The_Gaffer pointed out that the new recruits play against bots for a number of games, only eventually gradually against "humans".

All which will grant them a much higher starting WR, which gives them at least a little reserve to keep a better one.

Obviously it will degrade as drastically after X games.. but you may see a bunch of noobs and still incompetent players wit much higher WR with up to 50 games at any moment in time.

I do not know how many games it will take until "reality" starts, but they may even extend that period in the coming upgrades, if they think it would "help new players".



The_Gaffer #15 Posted 26 September 2018 - 01:39 PM

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I’m not sure if you get games in which the enemy team is entirely comprised of bots (after the training) but you certainly get games in which you are the only human on your team and the enemy has only one human player. It’s basically one-on-one with some bots to provide diversions. There is no doubt in my mind that the stats for beginners are going up but I doubt it takes long before the bots are all gone (maybe 100 battles or so?) so it should take a while before the overall (long-term) averages climb.

 

As you say, JamesJoyce, they may well extend that and who knows what else. It’s not the same anymore, that’s for sure.


Edited by The_Gaffer, 26 September 2018 - 01:42 PM.

"It's the job that's never started as takes longest to finish."

 


Baaadmutha888 #16 Posted 26 September 2018 - 02:46 PM

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View PostNeb10k, on 25 September 2018 - 06:15 PM, said:

Is anyone willing to argue that MM is not rigged after the last update?

 

Complete joke.

 

Under Tier all the time, given AFKs and begginers.

 

 

 

 

you read my mind and beat me to starting this thread.

 

This is rage inducing bigly. Its good to know i am not alone.

 

For the last several months, 80%-90% of all my battles have been against higher tier tanks. In the past, it was a fair 50/50 split +/- 1 tier.

 

In addition, there are usually between 1-4 players with zero dmg score on my team in each battle. Sometimes two afk on my team as well.

 

WG is obviously now trying hard to reduce the WR for anyone with over 50% WR.

 

this could be GAME OVER for WOTB if they dont fix it fast.

 

 

 

 



JamesJoyce #17 Posted 27 September 2018 - 04:15 AM

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View PostBaaadmutha888, on 26 September 2018 - 02:46 PM, said:

 

you read my mind and beat me to starting this thread.

 

This is rage inducing bigly. Its good to know i am not alone.

 

For the last several months, 80%-90% of all my battles have been against higher tier tanks. In the past, it was a fair 50/50 split +/- 1 tier.

In addition, there are usually between 1-4 players with zero dmg score on my team in each battle. Sometimes two afk on my team as well.

WG is obviously now trying hard to reduce the WR for anyone with over 50% WR.

this could be GAME OVER for WOTB if they dont fix it fast.

 

 

 

 

 

There are patterns obviously, but my observation is not simply ending up in higher tier most of the time - but almost always when playing a strong or OP tank.

Try to play an "insignificant", less popular or perhaps underpowered tank, and it looks very differently.

I have been grinding the Japanese line lately on one of my accounts and MM was totally different - to my great surprise clearly in my advantage .

Another pattern I have observed is how the same tank (fully equipped, all modules researched) can end up in extremely different WR on different accounts. Ranging from 40-60%+ after

the first 50-100 games. Which tells me that different players (or accounts) are being affected differently, depending on initial, early, continuous WR and other characteristics.

The worst is if you are "unlucky" at the start (of opening a new account) or fall back into a WR under 50% - whatever the algorithm does it will make it VERY hard to recover.

Now I am not a top player, but it is just too obvious how MM is NOT random and how it targets certain player behaviour and results.

As suggested earlier, there is a Shitload of players who struggle and fight like bulls to pass the 48% and eventually the 50% mark, and who actually deserve much better,

according to their skills, game play and overall knowledge. And even worse, they do not get any credibility and are systematically talked down by the community

and called noobs, incompetent - accused of self inflicted results etc... 


Edited by JamesJoyce, 27 September 2018 - 04:28 AM.


fjvhk #18 Posted 27 September 2018 - 06:49 AM

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View Post__Noobieman, on 26 September 2018 - 05:50 PM, said:

What about how long it is now taking to start a match, often around the 2 minute mark when there are heaps of players waiting.

 

This is an issue which I hope gets addressed, time spent in the queues eats into players time, even more precious when an hourly premium booster is in effect.

 

The result is fewer games per hour. The load on game servers must have gone down as a result, although server resources may have been shifted from game play to queue management. 

 

I would prefer to be in battles sooner rather than queueing longer to get onto a "fresh" map.

 

 

 

 

 

 



Neb10k #19 Posted 27 September 2018 - 07:13 AM

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View Postfjvhk, on 27 September 2018 - 06:49 AM, said:

 

This is an issue which I hope gets addressed, time spent in the queues eats into players time, even more precious when an hourly premium booster is in effect.

 

The result is fewer games per hour. The load on game servers must have gone down as a result, although server resources may have been shifted from game play to queue management. 

 

I would prefer to be in battles sooner rather than queueing longer to get onto a "fresh" map.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well said. 

 

 



_devXpert #20 Posted 27 September 2018 - 07:26 AM

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mate, its true that its broken that why i haven't battled in like 8+ months. I have obsession with nintendo switch now ;)

"DIE FOR SOMETHING RATHER THAN DIE FOR NOTHING"





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