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Low tier revamp

low tier revamp change

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Haubitzenschmitz #21 Posted 10 July 2018 - 12:41 PM

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View PostxXYolo_Noob_DriverXx, on 10 July 2018 - 09:09 AM, said:

Time to buy sealclubbing tanks. Teach the newbies not to rush grind.

 

With the new changes they will rush tiers for sure,... even faster and either way. And they will be obliterated (curtesy of SK8) even more. WG logic... ask Ash LOL.

Neb10k #22 Posted 11 July 2018 - 03:29 AM

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View PostxXYolo_Noob_DriverXx, on 10 July 2018 - 09:09 AM, said:

Time to buy sealclubbing tanks. Teach the newbies not to rush grind.

 

I think appearing at tier V to teach this lesson is fine. It’s part of the experience.



bigben21 #23 Posted 11 July 2018 - 03:57 AM

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Lol as I see it instead of preventing new players from quitting the game, the real reason for revamping the lower tiers is to make more money by turning those tanks into premium one so that they can be sold in crates.

 

How many of you ever thought of quitting when playing the lower tiers? Grinding tier 1-5 is pretty simple, fun and you play the most 30-40 games to move up the next tier (if you are a real bad in the game). The real problem starts when in higher tiers tier 7 and up, exacerbated by the spare part problem which WG took away eventually after causing many players to stop playing. 

 

Seriously, I think many of us would not mind WG as a biz entity to make money so that we can continue to enjoy the game. But to come out with ill-thought plan, and major revamp e.g, spare parts, crew skills that make the game more complicated Doesn’t look to have do them any good, in fact they have caused more harm than good. E.g crew skils benefit the veterans but hardly do justice to newbies. 

 

Just keep it simple. When I started the game in 2016, the era when there was no spare parts, enhanced crew skills, I grinded 10 lines at one go and I never had any problem. No real issue Other than that I realised I lost alot of games in t7 and up and I needed help but it was no easy task getting help to learn what went wrong and how to improve my game. In additional, I believe the quality of the game changed after patch 3.8 when major changes were introduced repeatedly mostly to detrimental effects.

 

If WG is serious about retaining players instead of their own P&L, for a start just try the following 2 things:

1) improve MM to include skill level too

2) offer tutorials for more advanced techniques in higher tiers like those when we first start to play the game. (Many of us have spoken about this for many years still not much progress.) 

 


Edited by bigben21, 11 July 2018 - 04:07 AM.


krad55 #24 Posted 11 July 2018 - 05:04 AM

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Before reworking tech tree, they are going to delete equipment from lower tier tanks. It is already in the test, and being discussed in the RU forum.

 

WG - new players have difficulties to understand all the equipment and ammunition thing (not saying who invented this new equipment with "billion" options). So, we need to simplify the gameplay for them and introduce ammunition and equipment gradually (tier by tier, tier 6 would have the full equipment available). Deleted equipment will be compensated.

 

Players - it was already difficult to be lower tier, but now, if you are unskilled new player, you will be not only bottom tier but have inferior equipment/ammunition too? How does it make sense? Somebody sarcastically suggests to limit crew training to 20%, so they learn gradually.

 

WG - It is just a part of changes you see. We will soon explain our vision regarding these changes and explain how we see this.

 

Doesn't it remind anything we have seen before?



Haubitzenschmitz #25 Posted 11 July 2018 - 09:54 AM

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View Postbigben21, on 11 July 2018 - 03:57 AM, said:

Lol as I see it instead of preventing new players from quitting the game, the real reason for revamping the lower tiers is to make more money by turning those tanks into premium one so that they can be sold in crates.

 

How many of you ever thought of quitting when playing the lower tiers? Grinding tier 1-5 is pretty simple, fun and you play the most 30-40 games to move up the next tier (if you are a real bad in the game). The real problem starts when in higher tiers tier 7 and up, exacerbated by the spare part problem which WG took away eventually after causing many players to stop playing. 

 

Seriously, I think many of us would not mind WG as a biz entity to make money so that we can continue to enjoy the game. But to come out with ill-thought plan, and major revamp e.g, spare parts, crew skills that make the game more complicated Doesn’t look to have do them any good, in fact they have caused more harm than good. E.g crew skils benefit the veterans but hardly do justice to newbies. 

 

Just keep it simple. When I started the game in 2016, the era when there was no spare parts, enhanced crew skills, I grinded 10 lines at one go and I never had any problem. No real issue Other than that I realised I lost alot of games in t7 and up and I needed help but it was no easy task getting help to learn what went wrong and how to improve my game. In additional, I believe the quality of the game changed after patch 3.8 when major changes were introduced repeatedly mostly to detrimental effects.

 

If WG is serious about retaining players instead of their own P&L, for a start just try the following 2 things:

1) improve MM to include skill level too

2) offer tutorials for more advanced techniques in higher tiers like those when we first start to play the game. (Many of us have spoken about this for many years still not much progress.) 

 

 

I could not agree more on every single point.

Including improving MM by including skill level as well. There had been an argument against it (via Bushka), that if you match up players too closely by skill, it would not be interesting and

it would be too predictable how the stats would evolve. Now, what I am saying is that MM does not exactly need to match players so closely to skill.

ONLY less unbalanced as it is now, that's all it needs!

Just improve it in order to not have these extremes in red vs. green teams .

If  MM was indeed meant to create these extremes (what some people believe), in order to lower the chances of winning too much according to skills - respectively to prevent newcomers to loose all the time, then PLEASE make it less extreme LOL 



krad55 #26 Posted 11 July 2018 - 10:38 AM

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View Postbigben21, on 11 July 2018 - 03:57 AM, said:

If WG is serious about retaining players...

 

Well, WG has clearly made it clear many times that their priority is not retaining players. Don't like it, don't play. There will always be others attracted by containers.

TinDingo #27 Posted 12 July 2018 - 12:06 AM

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A couple of points about the Bushka video...

 

1. I also think that WG is turning tech tree tanks into premiums just so they have something to put in loot boxes.

 

2. 20% of players not progressing beyond tier 1 is very good - only 20% of those who try the game think it is not for them, 80% do.

 

3. Getting rid of the forums means WG wants a more effective way to suppress criticism. Someone almost got banned from the WOT forum for referring to WG as "WarGambling". WG is turning into an on-line casino (for kids) with graphics that look like a tank game - in other words, the game is just a vehicle for the gambling side of the business.

 


Edited by TinDingo, 12 July 2018 - 12:07 AM.

Every system is perfectly designed to produce exactly the results that it produces


Haubitzenschmitz #28 Posted 12 July 2018 - 02:59 AM

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View PostTinDingo, on 12 July 2018 - 12:06 AM, said:

A couple of points about the Bushka video...

 

1. I also think that WG is turning tech tree tanks into premiums just so they have something to put in loot boxes.

 

2. 20% of players not progressing beyond tier 1 is very good - only 20% of those who try the game think it is not for them, 80% do.

 

3. Getting rid of the forums means WG wants a more effective way to suppress criticism. Someone almost got banned from the WOT forum for referring to WG as "WarGambling". WG is turning into an on-line casino (for kids) with graphics that look like a tank game - in other words, the game is just a vehicle for the gambling side of the business.

 

 

1. My best guess is still that they will do it moderately (if you can use that term), in a smooth transition. Lightening the tech tree step by step and only offering a few as premiums. And as they have done in the past, they may still offer those "selected" remodelled low tier tanks for cash or gold. To keep face and to being able to say that not everything comes in loot boxes. 

 

2. as I understood it, the claim was that as much as 80% quit the game early - even after the first battles (and thus not higher than tier 1) if I remember well. And that was correctly countered (by someone) as being the norm in most games. More of a default number, than something to worry about - and not exactly a good argument.

 

3. I agree! In a centralised forum they cannot just moderate more efficiently but they can also fully count on the highly devoted part of the community, to beat down any criticism by the usual arguments and personal attacks. And get some extra convincing by people who are not exactly agents, but maybe remunerated and thus reliable supporters LOL (don't bite the hand that feeds you). Don't be naive... these things are much more common as one thinks. 


Edited by Haubitzenschmitz, 12 July 2018 - 03:00 AM.


xXYolo_Noob_DriverXx #29 Posted 12 July 2018 - 05:23 AM

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View PostTinDingo, on 12 July 2018 - 08:06 AM, said:

A couple of points about the Bushka video...

 

1. I also think that WG is turning tech tree tanks into premiums just so they have something to put in loot boxes.

 

2. 20% of players not progressing beyond tier 1 is very good - only 20% of those who try the game think it is not for them, 80% do.

 

3. Getting rid of the forums means WG wants a more effective way to suppress criticism. Someone almost got banned from the WOT forum for referring to WG as "WarGambling". WG is turning into an on-line casino (for kids) with graphics that look like a tank game - in other words, the game is just a vehicle for the gambling side of the business.

 

And not forgetting about the fire extinguisher case (the real life one)


Only accepts plats. Those that need help in grinding or wants to do stupid stuff, invite me. other than that, dont.

 

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__ForGlory__ #30 Posted 12 July 2018 - 03:21 PM

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They are going on about player retention when this is clearly not the primary motive, retention of new players perhaps but it is the older players they care less about. They have a revolving door of new players coming in daily and it is these guys they want to seduce into giving them money in one way or another.

 

Spare parts, boosters, timers and crates was a big reason for so many older players leaving the game but in their eyes, many of these players had already completed many (if not all lines) and would therefore not need prem time as much, bought most of the prem tanks they wanted and had little left to do in the game other than be far more experienced and better than a good majority of the playerbase (not good for their new breed of cash cows coming through the doors).

 

I seriously think they knew it would cause many to leave the game and any of them that did stay, would have basically had a bit of a 'reset' on their accounts due to the removal and implementation of equipment and spare parts respectively. Those players now had to grind away again.

 

The fact that it has taken so long to reverse the spare parts and timers shows that they have not done it to appease the older players or to tempt any that have left to come back and continue their accounts -  they would have done it far sooner if that was the reason for doing so. They have reversed it now because they believe that the game is too confusing and difficult for new players to understand, the players that they do care about.

 

Equipment, boosters, timers, spare parts, credits, gold, premium time, the many different types of experience points, crew skills, crates, provisions and consumables is a lot to take in for new players and that is before we can even get started on the mechanics of the battles themselves and the many tanks and different types of tanks, their roles, different ammo's and techniques such as sidescraping, hulldown, COD etc etc.

 

From their side they are saying they want to try and simplify things at lower tiers apparently so that the 1 in 5 new players that leave - stay (which btw, an 80% retention rate is extremely good compared to many other games).

 

I just dont see how removing a big chunk of the lower tier tanks is going to resolve this anyhow. It will just once again annoy seasoned players - those that like to collect all the tanks and will make it far quicker for new players to progress into higher tiers where they are going to get their [edited] handed to them more frequently anyway. More tanks in the lower tiers means they are likely to stay down their longer as they want to try them all out.

 

It has been said time and again but EDUCATION is the way forward! They should be thinking about how to offer structured education to a new player. As it stands, the tutorial shows them how to move and shoot and that is about it. They are then let free and then WG wonders why they leave after they get blown up for the 10th battle in a row after 30 seconds into a game.

 

Of course, nobody wants to have to go through a tutorial system that is hours and hours long in one go, so structure it. Have the original tutorial then let them play 3 battles against same tier opponents (preferably matchmade with other new players or low skill players). After the third battle, give them a tutorial with small reward on light tanks and what their role is and teach them to spot, flank, snipe a little etc. You could then be shown given a similar tutorial when you buy your first medium tank, TD and heavy tank.  

 

You could then have milestone tutorials say after 10, 20 , 30 , 40 , 50 battles etc that teach them things like ammo types, armor, how pen works before moving on to more advanced things such as sidescraping, resetting camo and all of that stuff.

 

Finally, once these tutorials have been done, dont just remove them - leave them as a resource that they can do again and again in the options in the garage just in case they did not understand or pick it up properly the first place.

 

Just some ideas but anything is better than another half-brain idea from WG.

 

 

 

 

 







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