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Loosing streaks - across Accounts


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Creighton_Abrams #1 Posted 28 June 2018 - 06:19 PM

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Has anyone experienced Loosing streaks at the same time across Multiple accounts (assuming that you have them)  ? This is a first for me, normally I just switch accounts and everything's okay, but today it seems WG have changed tactics - perhaps by focusing up IP Address ?

 

 

 



Haubitzenschmitz #2 Posted 29 June 2018 - 03:57 AM

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Yes and no... Let's say a week ago I had started to play again and I was surprised how good my "short term" WR became on sporadically playing a few games across accounts.

So I thought for a second that the MM in 5.0 was modified, in order to not discourage players who start playing again. Meaning that you would not get a loosing strike at first.

However this was working or however it came to be....LOL

 

BUT, yesterday indeed, I started to have loosing strikes again on a few accounts - not on all, but on the usual ones. 

 

Now I am no conspiracy theorist as far as Blitz goes, but then again I have no idea how the proclaimed randomness can produce either.

 



Gandalf__Greyhame #3 Posted 29 June 2018 - 05:00 AM

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View PostCreighton_Abrams, on 28 June 2018 - 06:19 PM, said:

Has anyone experienced Loosing streaks at the same time across Multiple accounts (assuming that you have them)  ? This is a first for me, normally I just switch accounts and everything's okay, but today it seems WG have changed tactics - perhaps by focusing up IP Address ?

 

 

 

 

This is an ancient conspiracy theory / excuse people use . Unless you have actual evidence that MM is rigged you can zip it .

Ronnel_999 #4 Posted 29 June 2018 - 05:07 AM

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Yep as always... 
My experience is that if I buy something then I'm paired with better players and less bad rng but after a few days I'm screwed again.
Just don't take this game seriously, don't expect that this is a team game because basically it's not. You can do top damage most of the times but if the MM and bad RNG wants to screw you up, then your screwed. You'll end up being paired with zombie teammates who dies in less than a minute and you are left alone trying your best to carry the game but still end up being gang-molested by the reds. You'll also be bottom tiered most of the times and would feel that you would just like to AFK because it's another foreseeable loss (again..) :(


 

iamSamRock #5 Posted 29 June 2018 - 05:45 AM

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this world cup event has been worse for me. i was losing so much but didn't realized until i checked my profile, probably shouldn't had. haven't dropped so deep in winrate since I've been on Blitz i think

Creighton_Abrams #6 Posted 29 June 2018 - 07:57 AM

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If it were RNG then you would expect some distribution, but consistently ? Its quite hard to win the game single handidly in some tanks, and more-so when you're facing a team who has seemingly impenetrable amour, and whose every shot causes max damage... so yeah. I don't think its RNG, and I dont think it's being a bad player. Just like the Credit Coefficients for Tanks, I suspect that there's a game effectiveness coefficient. Or maybe its just that my Tanks always end up as lowest Tier and cant do dmg against the Higher.

 

Gandalf__Greyhame is a forum troll who will say anything just to solicit a response.  Sadly he won't go so far as deleting his account - but if he did we may have something more to say about that. If you look at his account, it has Fake written all over it, he bought a Gold tank to start with, then randomly bought a couple of other tanks, and hasn't played since last year. Hardly qualified to comment upon anything.

 

 


Edited by Creighton_Abrams, 29 June 2018 - 08:06 AM.


Gandalf__Greyhame #7 Posted 29 June 2018 - 09:38 AM

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View PostCreighton_Abrams, on 29 June 2018 - 07:57 AM, said:

If it were RNG then you would expect some distribution, but consistently ? Its quite hard to win the game single handidly in some tanks, and more-so when you're facing a team who has seemingly impenetrable amour, and whose every shot causes max damage... so yeah. I don't think its RNG, and I dont think it's being a bad player. Just like the Credit Coefficients for Tanks, I suspect that there's a game effectiveness coefficient. Or maybe its just that my Tanks always end up as lowest Tier and cant do dmg against the Higher.

 

Gandalf__Greyhame is a forum troll who will say anything just to solicit a response.  Sadly he won't go so far as deleting his account - but if he did we may have something more to say about that. If you look at his account, it has Fake written all over it, he bought a Gold tank to start with, then randomly bought a couple of other tanks, and hasn't played since last year. Hardly qualified to comment upon anything.

 

 

 

All I am saying is that this conspiracy theory about rigged MM is an old one . Oh I am always lower tier / I always get team full of noobs who cause me to lose etc . If you are claiming that MM is responsible for your losing streak then kindly provide the evidence . One evidence I can imagine would be that say you had a 10 game losing streak where you felt MM was being rigged . Then kindly provide the stats showing that your team was stacked with much lower win rate players compared to the red team in all those games . Over a 10 game period one would expect that WR will be balanced out . But if you find yourself consistently in the company of very bad wr players compared to red team then I would consider this to be good evidence for your claim . 

ankitgusai19 #8 Posted 29 June 2018 - 09:43 AM

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View PostCreighton_Abrams, on 29 June 2018 - 01:27 PM, said:

If it were RNG then you would expect some distribution, but consistently ? Its quite hard to win the game single handidly in some tanks, and more-so when you're facing a team who has seemingly impenetrable amour, and whose every shot causes max damage... so yeah. I don't think its RNG, and I dont think it's being a bad player. Just like the Credit Coefficients for Tanks, I suspect that there's a game effectiveness coefficient. Or maybe its just that my Tanks always end up as lowest Tier and cant do dmg against the Higher.

 

Gandalf__Greyhame is a forum troll who will say anything just to solicit a response.  Sadly he won't go so far as deleting his account - but if he did we may have something more to say about that. If you look at his account, it has Fake written all over it, he bought a Gold tank to start with, then randomly bought a couple of other tanks, and hasn't played since last year. Hardly qualified to comment upon anything.

 

 

 

There is a thread on NA forum where Devs have explicitly stated that there is no such parameter in play, The only thing MM consider is tank tier and tank type.
And about Gandalf__greyhamme's comment, He is NOT wrong, time to time various people have posted that according to them MM is rigged and purposefully makes them lose the game in order to gain something.

 

Edited by ankitgusai19, 29 June 2018 - 09:45 AM.


Creighton_Abrams #9 Posted 29 June 2018 - 09:43 AM

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"Gandalf_Greyhame", you dont play this game anymore (according to BlitzStars, at least under this "imposters" account), and yes, I can provide evidence of 10 game period WR going down even though DR goes up.

 



ankitgusai19 #10 Posted 29 June 2018 - 09:49 AM

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View PostCreighton_Abrams, on 29 June 2018 - 03:13 PM, said:

"Gandalf_Greyhame", you dont play this game anymore (according to BlitzStars, at least under this "imposters" account), and yes, I can provide evidence of 10 game period WR going down even though DR goes up.

 

 

That can't prove anything TBH, 
What can actually help is calculating WR/AVG DMG of all 14 players over 10 continuous loss, over more than few occasions and then deriving some sort of pattern.

Creighton_Abrams #11 Posted 29 June 2018 - 09:52 AM

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If there was no such parameter in play, then RNG is not "R".   If they meant a Win or Loose Flag then I'd agree there isnt that, but there is, from what I can see over the many games I've played inconsistency in Tank effectiveness, of my own tank, and between teams. I've even been on teams with higher ranked players and we've lost 7-0 (to newbies)... so where they all drunk/blind or having bad luck ?

 

An example of the type of things that go on, you place a shot and the shell mysteriously falls short. You fire HE, and it bounces with 0 Damage (yes bounces), you fire point blank at the flank of a tank, and do minimal (if any damage), shots more often than not fly towards the extremities of the aiming circle, all of these are reasonably good indicators that you're in for a bad game. Some games everything's great, perfect shots, 1 shot kills when you'd not expect them to be, but for the whole team to be effected at the same time consistently over a run of several games, seems a tad odd, and if it was just me being the bad player then you'd sort of expect the rest of the team to have a chance of taking out at least several of the Reds... right ?

 

This type of winning/loosing comes and goes - normally just effecting 1 account at a time, not several in a go - which appears to be a new strategy for WG, hence the original post.

 

 



Creighton_Abrams #12 Posted 29 June 2018 - 10:01 AM

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ankitgusai19 - if you have an app that does that on the fly at the start of a game, then it'd be useful to see. Avg DMG is subjective to tank and assumes some sort of consistency - a TD would often do more than a Light  for example,   When on a loosing streak of 3 or more games, I will switch lines, that sometimes helps, also switching down/up Tiers but generally only by +/- 2 has impact. And switching accounts is something I do too generally I see a difference, but this time it's been significantly different. That said, one account though appears to be not fairing too badly - just average wins/losses as I'd expect. 

 

i think we all go through winning/loosing streaks from in cycles, but what makes this one more surprising is the consistency across accounts - hence why I was interested to see if others have experienced the same ? And what their strategy was... simply not playing seems to be the safest at present.



ankitgusai19 #13 Posted 29 June 2018 - 11:33 AM

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View PostCreighton_Abrams, on 29 June 2018 - 03:22 PM, said:

If there was no such parameter in play, then RNG is not "R".   If they meant a Win or Loose Flag then I'd agree there isnt that, but there is, from what I can see over the many games I've played inconsistency in Tank effectiveness, of my own tank, and between teams. I've even been on teams with higher ranked players and we've lost 7-0 (to newbies)... so where they all drunk/blind or having bad luck ?

 

An example of the type of things that go on, you place a shot and the shell mysteriously falls short. You fire HE, and it bounces with 0 Damage (yes bounces), you fire point blank at the flank of a tank, and do minimal (if any damage), shots more often than not fly towards the extremities of the aiming circle, all of these are reasonably good indicators that you're in for a bad game. Some games everything's great, perfect shots, 1 shot kills when you'd not expect them to be, but for the whole team to be effected at the same time consistently over a run of several games, seems a tad odd, and if it was just me being the bad player then you'd sort of expect the rest of the team to have a chance of taking out at least several of the Reds... right ?

 

This type of winning/loosing comes and goes - normally just effecting 1 account at a time, not several in a go - which appears to be a new strategy for WG, hence the original post.

 

 

 

View PostCreighton_Abrams, on 29 June 2018 - 03:31 PM, said:

ankitgusai19 - if you have an app that does that on the fly at the start of a game, then it'd be useful to see. Avg DMG is subjective to tank and assumes some sort of consistency - a TD would often do more than a Light  for example,   When on a loosing streak of 3 or more games, I will switch lines, that sometimes helps, also switching down/up Tiers but generally only by +/- 2 has impact. And switching accounts is something I do too generally I see a difference, but this time it's been significantly different. That said, one account though appears to be not fairing too badly - just average wins/losses as I'd expect. 

 

i think we all go through winning/loosing streaks from in cycles, but what makes this one more surprising is the consistency across accounts - hence why I was interested to see if others have experienced the same ? And what their strategy was... simply not playing seems to be the safest at present.

 

There is no app, it has to be done manually.

Here's the official response from RibbleStripe, Plus that thread has whole lot (33 Pages) of discussions on this very topic.
http://forum.wotblit...82#entry1338282

 

What you experiencing  looks like more of a psychological issue, once we start loosing couple of game we immediately gets into this mindset that now we are on that "Loosing streak". I am not making this stuff, humans have tendencies to make logical sense of everything and it does not cope well with RNG.

If you firmly believe that what you are experiencing isn't a fair MM and is rigged in some way then the only way to get onto some sort of conclusion is to gather data, show how MM has affected a period of game play and BEST if you can come up with some sort of algo or logic that can predict or tell that at what moment MM starts favouring any side.

I get that it's incredibly tricky and cumbersome but thats all there is. 

I hope that helps.
  



Creighton_Abrams #14 Posted 29 June 2018 - 12:49 PM

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Nope, not a Psychological issue, as were that the case, then it would be consistent across every account, (I mentioned one account that was less impacted) and I would not be generally taking the highest Dmg per game and possibly freaking each during each game.  Also, I can come back the next day fully refreshed, and the same is repeated.

 

The team quality is variable, sometime excellent players, but we just loose, other times players who need more practice or learn to drive. The 7-0 rate is a bit troubling though, seeing several games when that happens shouldn't be normal right ?

 

One thing I have noticed, is that if you get a Mission (to survive a game) then inevitably you won't, or winning 3 games in a row... is next to impossible.

 

After this evenings resets the loosing streaks seem to have abated, (for my other accounts), weird.  Maybe just one of those rare things like Stars aligning themselves, that most the accounts would experience a loosing streak at the same time.  

 

Thanks for the link ankitgusai19, it going to make some interesting reading.  Perhaps too an app is worth putting together, one which looks at the players you're with and up against and produces a simple display of their stats and recent performance, something I've been mulling over recently, but would only benefit those with two mobile devices or a mobile device and are a PC player.

 

 

 

 


Edited by Creighton_Abrams, 29 June 2018 - 01:26 PM.


Gandalf__Greyhame #15 Posted 29 June 2018 - 06:06 PM

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View PostCreighton_Abrams, on 29 June 2018 - 07:57 AM, said:

 

Gandalf__Greyhame is a forum troll who will say anything just to solicit a response.  Sadly he won't go so far as deleting his account - but if he did we may have something more to say about that. If you look at his account, it has Fake written all over it, he bought a Gold tank to start with, then randomly bought a couple of other tanks, and hasn't played since last year. Hardly qualified to comment upon anything.

 

 

To this my reply is as follows and this is actually my favorite piece of philosophy :

The best minds talk about ideas ...

Inferior minds talk about events ....

The worst minds talk about individuals .

Instead of calling me names and saying I am troll why don't you talk about the ideas I present ....



Gandalf__Greyhame #16 Posted 29 June 2018 - 06:16 PM

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Kindly answer the following questions :

1) In which manner is MM rigged ? 

2) What is the goal/motive of WG in having a rigged MM system ?

3) How does rigging MM benefit WG (financially) ?

4) Is MM rigged for all players or only certain players ?

Forget about evidence , we can talk about evidence later . First provide answers to these  questions and then we can take it from there .



XF1_Razer #17 Posted 29 June 2018 - 11:03 PM

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MM is rigged for only certain players. So many times have I seen a nub (100 battles, 45 average damage or so) with a 60% winrate. Perhaps when they get a little more experienced they will begin to experience the corrupted match making?

 

Also Gandalf__Greyhame is most likely not a forum troll. He has provided multiple useful posts and doesn’t seem to misbehave. However, I am certainly drawing a line between ‘troll’ and ‘bloody annoying’.

 

your (not so) friendly neighbour Razer 



Haubitzenschmitz #18 Posted 30 June 2018 - 01:49 AM

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View PostGandalf__Greyhame, on 29 June 2018 - 06:16 PM, said:

Kindly answer the following questions :

1) In which manner is MM rigged ? 

2) What is the goal/motive of WG in having a rigged MM system ?

3) How does rigging MM benefit WG (financially) ?

4) Is MM rigged for all players or only certain players ?

Forget about evidence , we can talk about evidence later . First provide answers to these  questions and then we can take it from there .

 

Was not addressed to me, but I still answer them, if you do not mind.

 

1. MM is rigged in a way (manner), to prevent both good and excellent players to win too often, and really bad or less than average players loose to often.

 

2. The goal an motive is to keep all players going and playing, preventing the really bad players from getting too frustrated and the good ones from getting too cocky, dominant and without challenge.

 

3. How this benefits WG financially is obvious, the more player get going and keep playing, the more popular the game is and remains, the more will spend (even if only a little) and the more WG earns.

 

4. MM is likely only rigged when necessary... and this would mean more for some players (accounts) and less for others. But as in real life, the middle class pays the taxes. So, it seems to me that

the middle class players would suffer most form MM manipulation. This would also explain, why MM issues, rigging, manipulation and occurrences would still be noticed differently by some players. 

 

The Evidence is there in plain sight! The former -2/+2 MM had two purposes, 1 was to have quicker MM, shorter queue and the second was to create that sort of artificial randomness that gave

"everyone" a chance to win. They kept it longer as necessary.... because after it wasn't necessary any longer to shorten waiting times, it was still useful to create those "quantum leaps".

Same for the actual MM. There is obvious and VISIBLE unbalance in MM. in order to create irregularities, that guaranty game outcomes that do not reflect skill, rank or qualification of individual

players - in both directions. The most obvious are for example 2 OP premiums in one team, and none in the other - when MM could have split them. 2 KV1 or KV2 in one team, none in the other.

Just a few examples of many!

 

And there is no need to prove any of this "statistically" and by numbers, as it is already proven. Every experienced player with a certain number of battles knows how hard it is to get and maintain a

60% or plus WR, and only by being extremely METHODICAL. When actually a 60% WR is statistically really low in comparison to one's skill, experience and overall qualification!

Because people forget that after all that effort and investment you statistically still loose 4 in 10 games, 400 vs. 600 etc... !!!! 

Most of the members of this forum are less interested or less aware, that on the other hand, a really bad player (inexperienced and incompetent at best), with a bloody 40% WR, most likely

grinding tanks from scratch without any or little Free XP, just playing any tank, either they master it or not, STILL wins 4 of 10 games, only looses 6 of 10!!!! 

 

If the game, including MM was not designed for this outcome, (we could add here that WG insists on randomness of MM, and refuses to consider skill, WR, stats, modules or anything), 

win rates would look VERY, VERY differently, we would find 85% frequently and down to shameful 18, 15%, without a doubt. And more importantly, there would never be so many descent and rather skilful players STRUGGLING like hell to get to 50% plus. Let those numbers sink in for a second and tell me if they are not proof enough :P

 

PS: if ever you would ask WHY matchmaking? Well, if you wanted to cut the lemonade in a factory, where would you do that best? Yes, with the wheel where the concentrate is dosed and added to the water, before it gets bottled!


Edited by Haubitzenschmitz, 30 June 2018 - 05:57 AM.


MontMont #19 Posted 30 June 2018 - 04:09 AM

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Well said Haubitzenschmitz, someone has finally stated what I believe is real, MM is rigged. Now I have 2 accounts one I've played more than 30,000 games and the other 1,000, so I think I've played enough games to notice there is something not quite right. Invariabley each battle I enter in either account I'm the lower tiered tank and so you can't lead the attack, so you have to preserve yourself and if your higher tiered teammates don't succeed in depleting most of the higher tiered enemy you become cannon fodder when you get surrounded. Then you get a losing streak and the iPad gets thrown and the dog cowers in the corner when you start swearing loudly.

Now the so called experts will start spruking as usual that MM isn't rigged and we have to prove it and it evens out anyway. Well I say that's a load BS it is real and it is happening.



Captain_Par #20 Posted 30 June 2018 - 06:33 AM

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View PostCreighton_Abrams, on 28 June 2018 - 11:49 PM, said:

Has anyone experienced Loosing streaks at the same time across Multiple accounts (assuming that you have them)  ? This is a first for me, normally I just switch accounts and everything's okay, but today it seems WG have changed tactics - perhaps by focusing up IP Address ?

 

 

 

 

Maybe you're just too focused on improving your winrate, you've actually stopped enjoying the game. It sort of has become a quest for you hasn't it to get the best winrate etc to flaunt it obviously. My advice probably wont even matter but it has made me enjoy this game for what it is. I've stopped caring about winrate, damage ratio and other stats, i play to play simple. You lose or you win stay humble and people will like you for that, ive talked sense into a few ragers after a loss and some have appreciated it. So stop looking at stats and just play. Free advice take it or leave it.




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