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Matchmaking changes in 4.5

The last straw

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stormventsrage2 #1 Posted 31 December 2017 - 12:49 PM

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I've played enough 4.5 games now to notice that my games are evenly matched win rate wise. And my win rate is rather high by comparison to the whole player base. I've been punished for winning before but this seems new. I can't play under these conditions so I'm out of play for the next month or so until I can understand the changes. Good bye all. Might be back but not sure.
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Destroyer123_defender #2 Posted 31 December 2017 - 12:56 PM

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View Poststormventsrage2, on 31 December 2017 - 05:49 PM, said:

I've played enough 4.5 games now to notice that my games are evenly matched win rate wise. And my win rate is rather high by comparison to the whole player base. I've been punished for winning before but this seems new. I can't play under these conditions so I'm out of play for the next month or so until I can understand the changes. Good bye all. Might be back but not sure.

To me, the matchmaking has gotten a lot better, I can do more Damage without being carried by someone, detect socializing players and good folks, praise someone regardless ally or enemy. The matchmaker had gotten a lot better, people understand the command better, they listen unlike the previous matchmaking. Although you'll see some very dumb,arrogant and other random bots aimlessly moving to the opposite direction you want them to be, miss the shot even the enemy is five paces ago, high teir skrubs who'll just be on their another way and demand us all with useless instructions because they are high teir. I'm happy with these changes but I can't help but notice these Amx-30B in teir X even tho my highest teir is 8 and didn't even bother to progress. Wasting the poosters and got me satisfying free xp in my stash.



The_Gaffer #3 Posted 31 December 2017 - 03:59 PM

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View Poststormventsrage2, on 31 December 2017 - 10:49 PM, said:

I've played enough 4.5 games now to notice that my games are evenly matched win rate wise. And my win rate is rather high by comparison to the whole player base. I've been punished for winning before but this seems new. I can't play under these conditions so I'm out of play for the next month or so until I can understand the changes. Good bye all. Might be back but not sure.

 

I have to say, I am hearing that from several players much better than myself (not saying much) and I feel the same way. Battles definitely seem more work now. I am still playing but just to complete missions. It’s a habit I can’t shake. I am not bothered about researching new tanks or playing any tanks other than the quickest and easiest ones to complete my missions in.

 

If it is as you suspect, then better players will find battles tougher while others will find them easier. That’s what any sort of balancing system will do.

 

Anyway, I hope it changes and we see you back soon. 


Edited by Gandalf_Greyhame, 31 December 2017 - 04:02 PM.

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bigben21 #4 Posted 31 December 2017 - 05:45 PM

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I still think it’s important to choose the period of time to play when more experienced players are out. If you keep having teammates  going solo and yolo towards the enemies, not knowing what to do, then you know its not the right timing to play.

 

 



Creighton_Abrams #5 Posted 31 December 2017 - 07:50 PM

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I play now across a couple of accounts, and think that the 4.5 release does introduce a number of new Nobbling factors. I've seen more 7-0 /6-1 / 5- 2 matches in this release than any other... so what's changed.... ? I play sometimes into the early hours so even across time-zones, it's not just the School Holidays factor. Terrain factors have been increased, so when your tank is in the dunes, its more likely to be slowed down further than before. Shots will bounce more at point blank range, and HE too (contrary to the docs) will do no damage... so it's become a bit more of a roll of the dice than before....  that's my take.

 

 


     

 

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Noobieman #6 Posted 01 January 2018 - 10:46 AM

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MM is worse after 4.5 for me, vast majority of my games are mixed tiers with me in the lower tier group. Is very annoying with potatoes "driving" higher tiers into building and not doing any significant enemy shooting.

 

I enjoy any game now that has the same tier on both sides, easier to deal with enemy potatoes too.

 

Yes, lots of "missed shots" now from 10 - 50 m away ................... rigged.



bigben21 #7 Posted 01 January 2018 - 02:10 PM

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View PostCreighton_Abrams, on 31 December 2017 - 07:50 PM, said:

I play now across a couple of accounts, and think that the 4.5 release does introduce a number of new Nobbling factors. I've seen more 7-0 /6-1 / 5- 2 matches in this release than any other... so what's changed.... ? I play sometimes into the early hours so even across time-zones, it's not just the School Holidays factor. Terrain factors have been increased, so when your tank is in the dunes, its more likely to be slowed down further than before. Shots will bounce more at point blank range, and HE too (contrary to the docs) will do no damage... so it's become a bit more of a roll of the dice than before....  that's my take.

 

 

 

Yes I do realise in recent times many missed shot even in point blank range..... a bug maybe. 



Sniper_the_fox #8 Posted 01 January 2018 - 02:29 PM

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Played this game for a few years but no something is up.  I accept bad runs  bad luck and

the rest but for some periods the game is not a goer.  I have suspected bots being put in

for what ever but the clincher was a game whe three tanks with clear shots on reds 

coming did nothing , again again again until all were dead.  Mm beta testing is afoot whic is fine but tell us .

the change is stunning when it changes ,  suddenly its the game you remember.

 

 



Joy_127 #9 Posted 01 January 2018 - 03:22 PM

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So matchmaking giving bad draw to everyone? That's strange. 

Sniper_the_fox #10 Posted 01 January 2018 - 03:37 PM

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View PostJoy_127, on 01 January 2018 - 03:22 PM, said:

So matchmaking giving bad draw to everyone? That's strange. 

 

just changing/testing  algorithms but not telling the people,  so be it it’s their game but tell us s we can choose when to play

 



Aragorn_Elessar #11 Posted 01 January 2018 - 04:04 PM

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View PostSniper_the_fox, on 02 January 2018 - 12:29 AM, said:

Played this game for a few years but no something is up.  I accept bad runs  bad luck and

the rest but for some periods the game is not a goer.  I have suspected bots being put in

for what ever but the clincher was a game whe three tanks with clear shots on reds 

coming did nothing , again again again until all were dead.  Mm beta testing is afoot whic is fine but tell us .

the change is stunning when it changes ,  suddenly its the game you remember.

 

Sniper has been playing long enough and is more than good enough to notice when things change. He is not alone. Many players are feeling this way. It also seems as though doing well sees you get assigned as lower tier more often.


Edited by Aragorn_Elessar, 01 January 2018 - 04:05 PM.

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BigNowzy #12 Posted 02 January 2018 - 01:11 AM

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I'm not sure how this could work. There has always been a standard bell curve of WR, that is some terrible players, loads of average and some unicums at the top.

I played a game on the weekend where there were 4 unicum solo players on my team and all sub 50 on red. How could the 4.5mm ever let that happen?

So when the MM gives you all of those 40% players to make you lose, should they not be rigging the game to make them win as their WR is too low?

Why do people think WG is out to make them lose, people need to take responsibility for their own play and realise only they can truly dictate their performance. We all play with the same MM, just enjoy the game for what it is.

Edited by BigNowzy, 02 January 2018 - 01:11 AM.


Gimli_of_Erebor #13 Posted 02 January 2018 - 02:12 AM

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View PostBigNowzy, on 02 January 2018 - 11:11 AM, said:

I'm not sure how this could work. There has always been a standard bell curve of WR, that is some terrible players, loads of average and some unicums at the top.

I played a game on the weekend where there were 4 unicum solo players on my team and all sub 50 on red. How could the 4.5mm ever let that happen?

So when the MM gives you all of those 40% players to make you lose, should they not be rigging the game to make them win as their WR is too low?

Why do people think WG is out to make them lose, people need to take responsibility for their own play and realise only they can truly dictate their performance. We all play with the same MM, just enjoy the game for what it is.

 

That’s just how you’re interpreting what people are saying. The nubs on your team are not there to make you lose - you are there to make them win. :) 

 

It doesn’t make sense that they will want you to lose a lot. What does make sense is that they would prefer that nobody loses too much, as losing a lot is not fun for most people and they may quit the game. I still think it’s naive to think they haven’t thought about it. However much one might like to joke about it, they have some very smart employees and they think about keeping players in the game - it’s what the daily rewards are about, the missions, the events - all designed to keep us coming back.

 

It’s not about some sinister attempt to control your win-rate as, really, I don’t see how it hurts the game to have winners around. There’s no proof, of course. It’s just based on it being in their patent for the MM, available online, the fact that this is a business and it doesn’t take much to realise that keeping players in the game is good for business and that we know WG aren’t oblivious to player behaviour and patterns. 

 

Now it may be that they discovered that they don’t need to do anything in the MM to prevent lots of losses. It may be that things work out that way. It may also be that the MM tweaking based on your recent performance is in their patent as an option that has never been implemented (also ignoring that a WG employee has confirmed in an email that it is - in the PC game at least). And, even if there is anything like that, it has to be subject to player pool size, battle wait times, etc. So, it’s not a big deal at all.

 

I just don’t believe WG don’t think about that. They balance tanks all the time. Why? Why do they care if people lose a lot in any given tank? Or win a lot in any other tank? What does it matter? To me, the reason they analyse that is similar.


Edited by Gimli_of_Erebor, 02 January 2018 - 02:28 AM.

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erwin10001 #14 Posted 02 January 2018 - 02:29 AM

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When I play solo at tier 7, I am often in teams where there is a 40% platoon.

Today, when I platoon at tier 7, in 10 straight platoon games, I was not matched against an enemy 40% platoon - half were above 60% average winrate, and the other half were above 50%. 

It can't be that when I start platooning, all the 40% players stop platooning , but when I solo, the 40% players decide to platoon?  :)

 

 

 

 



Gimli_of_Erebor #15 Posted 02 January 2018 - 02:42 AM

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View Posterwin10001, on 02 January 2018 - 12:29 PM, said:

When I play solo at tier 7, I am often in teams where there is a 40% platoon.

Today, when I platoon at tier 7, in 10 straight platoon games, I was not matched against an enemy 40% platoon - half were above 60% average winrate, and the other half were above 50%. 

It can't be that when I start platooning, all the 40% players stop platooning , but when I solo, the 40% players decide to platoon?  :)

 

You’re a smart player. If you notice patterns like that, it’s not your imagination. Player pool size and availability of platoons in the pool make for differences along the way but there are definitely patterns to it. 

 

The biggest indication that WG are interested in balancing teams, for me, is with platoons. Those of you who have been playing Blitz for a while may recall a time when seeing a platoon on the enemy team if you were in one was just random chance. There may have been one but there often wasn’t. I always found that the enemy not having a platoon gave you an advantage. I don’t think many would dispute that - you have two players who will definitely be working together - focused fire, etc. The enemy team depends on having players who can work together as strangers and we know how rare that is.

 

Then WG changed it so that it is now extremely rare to have a platoon on one team that is not matched by a platoon on the other. Why? Is it not to negate the advantage? To make it more balanced? If they care about that, if they think about that, is it that much of a stretch to believe that they think about players losing too much in general?


Edited by Gimli_of_Erebor, 02 January 2018 - 02:45 AM.

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erwin10001 #16 Posted 02 January 2018 - 04:36 AM

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Another point is the slightly longer wait time to find a battle even though there are more players due to Blitz fair. If there are more players, it stands to reason that matchmaking should be even faster, all other things being equal.

 

It makes me suspect that MM is now asked to wait a little longer to see if it can match your platoon against another platoon of the "same standard."  On the other hand, they don't want the wait to be too long that it annoys the playerbase. (initially there were reports of super long wait times - WG possibly made an undisclosed tweak to reduce it?)

 

It may well be that after these few extra seconds, there are no suitable enemy platoons in queue, in which case MM will default to pairing you with whatever platoon is in queue, so it is still possible to get paired against 40% platoons

 

The MM has the potential to create very tough (and interesting, I must say) matchups. At the same time, it makes it difficult to platoon with anything but good tanks. i.e., its hard to take 'weak' tanks out for a drive in a platoon anymore.

 


Edited by erwin10001, 02 January 2018 - 04:43 AM.


Neb10k #17 Posted 02 January 2018 - 05:53 AM

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There is also a massive pool of 40% sub 2000 games players at present. X5 sux 

So MM has increased potential to shaft you.

I have had some shocking runs, constantly lower tier with poor teams but am unsure whether it is player base or MM tweak. I reckon it’s a combination. MM wants to hobble me but has increased potential.

Biggest evidence is KV1. Before 4.5 I was winning 80% in it over 30 days. Now I am much lower.

 

And when it went back to x2 bonus I had a massive winning streak.


Edited by Neb10k, 02 January 2018 - 05:54 AM.


Neb10k #18 Posted 02 January 2018 - 05:58 AM

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View PostBigNowzy, on 02 January 2018 - 01:11 AM, said:

I'm not sure how this could work. There has always been a standard bell curve of WR, that is some terrible players, loads of average and some unicums at the top.

I played a game on the weekend where there were 4 unicum solo players on my team and all sub 50 on red. How could the 4.5mm ever let that happen?

So when the MM gives you all of those 40% players to make you lose, should they not be rigging the game to make them win as their WR is too low?

Why do people think WG is out to make them lose, people need to take responsibility for their own play and realise only they can truly dictate their performance. We all play with the same MM, just enjoy the game for what it is.

 

Ok, true. But when you get multiple teams with an AFKer and players who can’t drive (200 battle wall shooters in an easy8) there is no much you can do. Then you wonder why opfor was organised and all over you and see their win-rates. Why does that happen in runs?



BigNowzy #19 Posted 02 January 2018 - 06:24 AM

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View PostNeb10k, on 02 January 2018 - 05:58 AM, said:

 

Ok, true. But when you get multiple teams with an AFKer and players who can’t drive (200 battle wall shooters in an easy8) there is no much you can do. Then you wonder why opfor was organised and all over you and see their win-rates. Why does that happen in runs?

Yes this is true but over time those AFK wall shooters will be on red and its an easy win. I cannot explain why this has happened to you in runs as you say. Why do you think this happens?

 

 

View PostNeb10k, on 02 January 2018 - 05:53 AM, said:

There is also a massive pool of 40% sub 2000 games players at present. X5 sux 

So MM has increased potential to shaft you.

I have had some shocking runs, constantly lower tier with poor teams but am unsure whether it is player base or MM tweak. I reckon it’s a combination. MM wants to hobble me but has increased potential.

Biggest evidence is KV1. Before 4.5 I was winning 80% in it over 30 days. Now I am much lower.

 

And when it went back to x2 bonus I had a massive winning streak.

 

Does it not then mean the red team will have loads of 40% players for us to dominate and destroy? As humans we want answers and explanations for everything. When we go on a losing streak we want to find a pattern or reason, it is easy to blame the mm and think WG is doing this on purpose. But when we go a winning streak we think well I'm playing well arent I and you rarely blame WG.

 

There are just so many variables in this game and that is why its hard to get any consistency. A team of 40% can often beat a team of higher WR if they all choose the right path and two scrubs on the other side don't follow the herd and hit 7 tanks. Its now 7-5 and much harder for the other team. This happens all the time and how a game starts can often dictate the end result. Nothing the MM or WG can do would predict how certain players play. 



Creighton_Abrams #20 Posted 09 January 2018 - 04:13 PM

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I think the MM process has indeed changed in 4.5 to throw in another NERF factor as I call it. Yes, it's not the School Kids being off.... as they're back at School now, and it happens all through the night.  I've been playing a tank consistently across a couple of accounts and have noticed that it's performance behaviour differs dramatically, even though it's exactly the same setup, and I'm playing the same.  And point blank range shots, shouldn't do no damage...  I mean, with gun at hull 90'.... point blank... it's happened. Interestingly after the premium account finished, my Team's Loose rate increased... I guess this would be an enticement to buy more Premium.... (after-all they do need to make money off addicts)

 

Before 4.5 Teams wouldn't win so often 7-0 or 5-0, it's be a mix of numbers.. but now, it's too frequent to be statistically improbable, so I do believe, and given that I'm not alone, that there's been changes made to make this so.

 

Win Rate now a days does not, I believe reflect upon your ability. It's just a reflection upon how lucky you are.... so please, don't slag off other players simply for having a lower Win Rate than you.... look at other factors during the game play.  

 


     

 

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