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Jackson v Hellcat: Which is the better ladt ditch brawler?

Last-ditch brawling emergency

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Poll: Which is the better last-ditch brawler, M36 or M18? (22 members have cast votes)

Which is the better last-ditch brawler?

  1. M36 Jackson (8 votes [36.36%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 36.36%

  2. Voted M18 Hellcat (14 votes [63.64%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 63.64%

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_RB_33_ #21 Posted 25 July 2017 - 07:18 AM

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View PostDiamond114, on 25 July 2017 - 03:36 AM, said:

Also regarding making decisions on the fly, all those time spent on combat flight sims also helped (yes Strike Fighters too). Fighter jockey instincts FTW.

 

 

I think there's a roundabout relativity between which type of Fighter Jock you are as to which kind of tanker you are in this game. I'm a "brain pilot" meaning I tend to hit and run and then think of better, more efficient ways of dealing with a target - similar to how a Jackson driver in this game would think. Most Hellcat drivers are more akin to "muscle pilots" meaning they depend on their reaction times and on the fly thinking. Anyway, that's fighter jock talk in a tanker's game :p I also read your Sp1C post and after doing some research on that nifty little bugger, I'm actually surprised that it was meant as a light tank destroyer. No wonder it somewhat pales in comparison to it's light tank peers. It was designed as a light tank destroyer and should be used as such. WG nerfing the Spicy Tank suddenly makes sense when you think about it.

 

@sing2019

It takes a lot of self-control not to go yolo in a Hellcat. I mean, if light tanks and medium tanks that have better armore and traverse speeds get fragged if they yolo mindlessly, what more with a Hellcat? The reason why you don't easily drive into trouble in a Jackson is because of its relatively slower speed compared to the Hellcat. It actually buys you time to think and at the same time prevents you from going too far ahead of the pack.



Diamond114 #22 Posted 25 July 2017 - 11:05 AM

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Good call, young Padawan.

"Fight to fly, fly to fight, FIGHT TO WIN!" - U.S Navy Fighter Weapons School TOPGUN.

 

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_RB_33_ #23 Posted 26 July 2017 - 09:34 AM

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View PostDiamond114, on 25 July 2017 - 11:05 AM, said:

Good call, young Padawan.

 

Well, judging by how you treated the Spicy being so similar to how Hellcat drivers operate, I decided to take a look into the history of that little bugger and lo and behold, it's no light tank; it's a light tank destroyer very much similar in spirit, if not in vein, to the Hellcat. I guess the Germans were so impressed with the Hellcat that they decided to design an entire generation of tanks (Sp1C, Leo PTA and Leo 1) that seem t have taken inspiration from the Hellcat's concept/design.

 

@erwin, sing

How are your adventures with the Hellcat and Jackson respectively?

 

@fellow forumers

care to chime in your thoughts and opinions on this?



Diamond114 #24 Posted 26 July 2017 - 01:00 PM

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This match I had just now after a while with the Jackson;

 

Fails Creek, I told our heavies to go C, only ARL went, KV-1S took tail end Charlie position leading to ARL getting bumrushed by their ARL, SU-100 and their Tier V French heavy. Meanwhile the meds made push at the A flag and got themselves kicked hard by their Cromie, Chaffee, VK 30.01P, and a stock T-34/85. Dealt some and took some damage, until I flanked their right forcing them to focus on me as finally the meds grew a pair and followed my lead. Killed the Cromie, T-34/85, and the VK also I think. Then the rest of their team snipes and kills our Jumbo and a med, I put 2 shots into the ARL and killed the SU-100 when he rushed out to kill our last med. After that it was down to me and their Frenchie as KV-1S deals with ARL and kills him. Missed two shots, including one where I was attempting to pre-fire (fired too early), but then the Frenchie bounced, giving me the chance to rush forward, circle around, and slam an HVAP up his back. Bounced a couple shots from T-34/85 and Chaffee once each too. 2017 damage, 4 kills, Top Gun and 1st Class, 922 base XP. Done with a two slot equipped tank (Optics and Rammer), fired only two APCR (one missed; the pre-fire, one hit), fired mostly AP. Gun handling this match is kind of iffy, though I did snapshot a lot. Sometimes it shines, sometimes it's almost Troll Cannon stats :(


"Fight to fly, fly to fight, FIGHT TO WIN!" - U.S Navy Fighter Weapons School TOPGUN.

 

"Nothing is right in tactics. A good fighter pilot must be free to propose improvements to his tactics or he will get himself killed." - Cmdr. Randy "Duke" Cunningham, USN.

 

"To be a good fighter pilot, there's only one prime requisite; Think Fast, and Act Faster" - John Trevor Godfrey, 336 Sqn RAF


Kabama04 #25 Posted 02 August 2017 - 03:24 AM

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Hellcat is my best “Over 100 Battles Winrate” tank, with 67% Winrate after 112 battles

yes it is ez derp, but it should be sniping, not frontlining.


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_RB_33_ #26 Posted 02 August 2017 - 05:11 AM

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View PostKabama04, on 02 August 2017 - 03:24 AM, said:

Hellcat is my best “Over 100 Battles Winrate” tank, with 67% Winrate after 112 battles

yes it is ez derp, but it should be sniping, not frontlining.

 

Agreed. But let's just say you got ambushed or forced into a brawl. It's a given that the Hellcat driver has most likely royally screwed up somewhere if s/he got into a brawl. What would you do to escape, survive or even win in a brawl with a Hellcat?

Diamond114 #27 Posted 02 August 2017 - 10:33 AM

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By the way, who are those three that voted Hellcat being the better brawler? Kinda interested to hear why from them

"Fight to fly, fly to fight, FIGHT TO WIN!" - U.S Navy Fighter Weapons School TOPGUN.

 

"Nothing is right in tactics. A good fighter pilot must be free to propose improvements to his tactics or he will get himself killed." - Cmdr. Randy "Duke" Cunningham, USN.

 

"To be a good fighter pilot, there's only one prime requisite; Think Fast, and Act Faster" - John Trevor Godfrey, 336 Sqn RAF


InvisibleShadow #28 Posted 02 August 2017 - 10:54 PM

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View Post_RB_33_, on 26 July 2017 - 09:34 AM, said:

 

Well, judging by how you treated the Spicy being so similar to how Hellcat drivers operate, I decided to take a look into the history of that little bugger and lo and behold, it's no light tank; it's a light tank destroyer very much similar in spirit, if not in vein, to the Hellcat. I guess the Germans were so impressed with the Hellcat that they decided to design an entire generation of tanks (Sp1C, Leo PTA and Leo 1) that seem t have taken inspiration from the Hellcat's concept/design.

 

@erwin, sing

How are your adventures with the Hellcat and Jackson respectively?

 

@fellow forumers

care to chime in your thoughts and opinions on this?

Hmm I think I agree with Hellcat being unsuitable for brawling, when I was playing tier VI I rushed so many Hellcats and brawled with them...always won

As for Jackson for some reason I often met it on the frontline...nub Jackson drivers I guess? 

Everytime I see a Hellcat/Jackson this is what I think: Easy kills, just watch out for Hellcat's gun...


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Kabama04 #29 Posted 03 August 2017 - 09:04 AM

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I can’t really say which is the better brawler, because I gave up the T110E3 line when I got to the T40, but I got the kitty and found it decent, whenever I see a derp gun (Including silly 10.5 germans) I hide.:hiding:
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_RB_33_ #30 Posted 04 August 2017 - 12:41 PM

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View PostInvisibleShadow, on 02 August 2017 - 10:54 PM, said:

Hmm I think I agree with Hellcat being unsuitable for brawling, when I was playing tier VI I rushed so many Hellcats and brawled with them...always won

As for Jackson for some reason I often met it on the frontline...nub Jackson drivers I guess? 

Everytime I see a Hellcat/Jackson this is what I think: Easy kills, just watch out for Hellcat's gun...

 

I can't blame you if you think of the Jackson drivers as nubs. Most of them just breeze by the Jackson as quickly as they can. And while the Jackson can brawl if the situation forces it to, it's not an easy tank to brawl in either. By the way, aren't the guns of the Jackson and Kitty the same?

 

View PostKabama04, on 03 August 2017 - 09:04 AM, said:

I can’t really say which is the better brawler, because I gave up the T110E3 line when I got to the T40, but I got the kitty and found it decent, whenever I see a derp gun (Including silly 10.5 germans) I hide.:hiding:

 

What do you do when you're forced into a brawl when you're in a Hellcat bro? I reckon that it's not all the time we can run or hide especially since map sizes in Blitz are somewhat small.



InvisibleShadow #31 Posted 05 August 2017 - 03:27 PM

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View Post_RB_33_, on 04 August 2017 - 12:41 PM, said:

 

I can't blame you if you think of the Jackson drivers as nubs. Most of them just breeze by the Jackson as quickly as they can. And while the Jackson can brawl if the situation forces it to, it's not an easy tank to brawl in either. By the way, aren't the guns of the Jackson and Kitty the same?

 

 

What do you do when you're forced into a brawl when you're in a Hellcat bro? I reckon that it's not all the time we can run or hide especially since map sizes in Blitz are somewhat small.

lol idk when I played tier 6 I just found the Hellcat gun more irritating for some reason XD


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RainbowSword #32 Posted 06 August 2017 - 02:41 AM

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Hellcat all the way. I bought the hellcat back recently just for stat padding :trollface: Hellcat has everything you need for sniping and brawling. Good camo ratings, excellent TD gun combined with 10 degress of gun depression and pretty good mobility.

Jackson just don't have the mobility to do what you can do with hellcat. Ofc, you can argue that Jackson has armor, but tbh the armor is still paper, even tier 5 tanks can pen Jackson no problem.


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_RB_33_ #33 Posted 06 August 2017 - 04:22 AM

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View PostInvisibleShadow, on 05 August 2017 - 03:27 PM, said:

lol idk when I played tier 6 I just found the Hellcat gun more irritating for some reason XD

 

 lol, it must be because there are more Hellcats running around along with more decent Hellcat drivers hehe

 

View PostRainbowSword, on 06 August 2017 - 02:41 AM, said:

Hellcat all the way. I bought the hellcat back recently just for stat padding :trollface: Hellcat has everything you need for sniping and brawling. Good camo ratings, excellent TD gun combined with 10 degress of gun depression and pretty good mobility.

Jackson just don't have the mobility to do what you can do with hellcat. Ofc, you can argue that Jackson has armor, but tbh the armor is still paper, even tier 5 tanks can pen Jackson no problem.

 

Finally! One of the Hellcat drivers speaks up :) ok, just to clarify things, what do you mean by mobility? Last I checked, the Hellcat has a slightly slower turret/hull traverse speeds compared to or equal to the Jackson. How do you account for this without the armor?



Kabama04 #34 Posted 07 August 2017 - 03:19 AM

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View Post_RB_33_, on 04 August 2017 - 10:41 PM, said:

What do you do when you're forced into a brawl when you're in a Hellcat bro? I reckon that it's not all the time we can run or hide especially since map sizes in Blitz are somewhat small.

 

I run like a French.


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_RB_33_ #35 Posted 07 August 2017 - 03:27 AM

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View PostKabama04, on 07 August 2017 - 03:19 AM, said:

 

I run like a French.

 

Dude! Your response just made my day :D national stereotypes aside, that's a very frank, sensible and hilarious answer :D

Edited by _RB_33_, 07 August 2017 - 03:29 AM.


Diamond114 #36 Posted 08 August 2017 - 10:38 AM

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View Post_RB_33_, on 06 August 2017 - 01:22 PM, said:

 

 lol, it must be because there are more Hellcats running around along with more decent Hellcat drivers hehe

 

 

Finally! One of the Hellcat drivers speaks up :) ok, just to clarify things, what do you mean by mobility? Last I checked, the Hellcat has a slightly slower turret/hull traverse speeds compared to or equal to the Jackson. How do you account for this without the armor?

Maybe what he meant is how fast the Hellcat can go from point A to point B. Hellcat does have a slower traverse both gun and hull but now that I've spent more time with Hellcats it's really not much of a difference if you anticipate ahead or unless you're taken by surprise from the flank and rear.

Hellcats are like sneaky ninjas, whereas Jackson is like a warrior ready for anything that is in store for him, for better or worse.

 

Doesn't mean that Jackson is bad now; that fight I had with the BDR G1 B when I was less than 120 health and bounces his 75mm (granted, a 75 mm with less pen than 6-pounder) was why I love Jacksons. If I was in a Hellcat in that scenario I'm dead certain I would be a goner. They both have different playstyles and quirks.

 

Also good Hellcat drivers tend to be the ones that know how not to get shot and hit, and that skill is particularly good to have considering the amount of carry that you need to do these days.

 

Also got a Victory in Hellcat in a 1v4 many moons back, involving a rather humorous part where I drive into a gaggle of enemy meds finishing our heavies while chasing and killing one of their lights. Killed them all somehow 


"Fight to fly, fly to fight, FIGHT TO WIN!" - U.S Navy Fighter Weapons School TOPGUN.

 

"Nothing is right in tactics. A good fighter pilot must be free to propose improvements to his tactics or he will get himself killed." - Cmdr. Randy "Duke" Cunningham, USN.

 

"To be a good fighter pilot, there's only one prime requisite; Think Fast, and Act Faster" - John Trevor Godfrey, 336 Sqn RAF


_RB_33_ #37 Posted 10 August 2017 - 03:16 AM

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View PostDiamond114, on 08 August 2017 - 10:38 AM, said:

Maybe what he meant is how fast the Hellcat can go from point A to point B. Hellcat does have a slower traverse both gun and hull but now that I've spent more time with Hellcats it's really not much of a difference if you anticipate ahead or unless you're taken by surprise from the flank and rear.

Hellcats are like sneaky ninjas, whereas Jackson is like a warrior ready for anything that is in store for him, for better or worse.

 

Doesn't mean that Jackson is bad now; that fight I had with the BDR G1 B when I was less than 120 health and bounces his 75mm (granted, a 75 mm with less pen than 6-pounder) was why I love Jacksons. If I was in a Hellcat in that scenario I'm dead certain I would be a goner. They both have different playstyles and quirks.

 

Also good Hellcat drivers tend to be the ones that know how not to get shot and hit, and that skill is particularly good to have considering the amount of carry that you need to do these days.

 

Also got a Victory in Hellcat in a 1v4 many moons back, involving a rather humorous part where I drive into a gaggle of enemy meds finishing our heavies while chasing and killing one of their lights. Killed them all somehow 

 

I've been riding my Hellcat a lot lately and it's definitely a fun tank. But I will never feel as comfortable with it as when I'm with the Jackson... Especially when there's a KV-2 or Su-152 running around with the reds on the map. Chalk it up to personal preference :)



Diamond114 #38 Posted 11 August 2017 - 07:20 AM

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Also I have mentioned this a year or two back, but Jackson just feels smoother because the dispersion doesn`t bloom as much when you brawl at close range. There are times in my Hellcat where I brawl and I lose either because the big dispersion bloom causes my shot to miss or because I can`t quite turn my turret to follow him before he kills me due to the slower traverse on both hull and turret.

"Fight to fly, fly to fight, FIGHT TO WIN!" - U.S Navy Fighter Weapons School TOPGUN.

 

"Nothing is right in tactics. A good fighter pilot must be free to propose improvements to his tactics or he will get himself killed." - Cmdr. Randy "Duke" Cunningham, USN.

 

"To be a good fighter pilot, there's only one prime requisite; Think Fast, and Act Faster" - John Trevor Godfrey, 336 Sqn RAF


Ambulant #39 Posted 12 August 2017 - 03:12 AM

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I vote Jackson, because it's closer to the T25/2 in terms of handling. You'll need to work really hard to make both work well. It gives you the illusion that you can brawl, so it's important to not do so if you have an option. But, if the odds are in your favor, you can actually win most brawls against most players regardless of tank

Diamond114 #40 Posted 17 August 2017 - 11:28 AM

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View Post_RB_33_, on 24 July 2017 - 01:11 PM, said:

 

Apart from being sneaky and maintaining situational awareness, what can you suggest to the average Hellcat driver out there if they ever find themselves in an unfavorable brawl i.e. a healthy opponent that they cannot finish quickly 1v1 and ambushing them to boot? 

 

Also I forgot, while this rule also holds true for any brawls, DO NOT fight outnumbered, especially important in easy to pen machines like Hellcat, Cromwell, lights etc. Usually in my case, the moment my brawl turns into a 1v2, all bets are off, you`re pretty much going BOHICA time unless both tanks at the point of contact have health that you can finish quickly i.e OHKs.

"Fight to fly, fly to fight, FIGHT TO WIN!" - U.S Navy Fighter Weapons School TOPGUN.

 

"Nothing is right in tactics. A good fighter pilot must be free to propose improvements to his tactics or he will get himself killed." - Cmdr. Randy "Duke" Cunningham, USN.

 

"To be a good fighter pilot, there's only one prime requisite; Think Fast, and Act Faster" - John Trevor Godfrey, 336 Sqn RAF





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