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Reviewing the Ins and Outs of the Military Honor system

honor abuse

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CynicalSilicon #1 Posted 03 June 2017 - 02:12 AM

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Hi all,

 

So I have seen a lot of threads on this, and was answering a few individually so I figured it might be better to post a fresh topic with my comments at the top.

 

Its been just over a week now since the system was introduced. Talking to players in-game and in-forums the overall response has been very positive.

My own experience has shown me that the players are overall going out of there way to be nice to one another and chat has improved immeasurably.

Now is the system perfect? Far from it yet.

 

The main concern I have heard from players revolve around two things:

 

1 - That the complaint system is open to abuse, allowing players to troll others and affect their rating

2 - That the rating seems to reduce over time and praises disappear.

 

First off, I have shared issue 1 with our development team and they are examining a) how much of this is happening and b) is it actually affecting ratings.

 

Here is where this all gets interesting though, and I think we need to do a better job of explaining the ins and outs of the system.

 

To quickly answer point 2)

Military Honour relies on ratings for the past few days rather than overall appraisals. This means that it always gravitates towards 3 stars and will regularly regain that value.

 

What does this mean? That praises and complaints you receive are not permanent, they are counted for a period of time and then lose their value over time.

 

Now for question 1) lets to go back to the basis of the system:The number of available appraisals per day is limited and depends on your Military Honour value:

  • 5 stars — 4 praises and 4 complaints
  • 4 stars — 3 praises and 3 complaints
  • 3 stars — 3 praises and 2 complaints
  • 2 stars — 2 praises and 1 complaint
  • 0 or 1 star — 0 praises and 0 complaints

 

So even for a 5 star player, the maximum amount of complaints you can make per day is 4.

For a 1 star player, you cant give any.

 

So by definition, each individual player has a very limited impact on another players rating. The rating system adjusts over time to multiple praises and complaints rather than immediately reacting to individual complaints/praises.

Which is probably why many of the players I have discussed this with and have complained about had excellent ratings. The impact of individuals trying to misuse the system is minimised.


ALSO,

 

The power of a player’s complaint against another player depends on the value of their Military Honour, and the number of battles fought by the player who submitted the complaint

Submitted complaints are also checked and only confirmed complaints start affecting Military Honour.

 

So there are checks and balances in the system to minimise abuse, but individually you may still receive unfair complaints. This is what we are looking more closely at.

 

Why have complaints? Because they are part of our evolution to a better system of tracking AFKs and bots. I hope we can get even better at dealing with those issues to make the battlefield a better place to be.

 

See you out there

CS



Dr_Jedi #2 Posted 03 June 2017 - 03:22 AM

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The actions of player base do have improved.

I would like to give a suggestion to add "Acidic Chatter" option to downvote opponent team members.

As it's not available, many click "Inactive in battle" option.

 

Also if actions on downvotes are not taken, bans or even just warnings, the player base will return to old mischiefs.

 

Thanks for all the work mate.



SonderAbteilung #3 Posted 03 June 2017 - 06:21 AM

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Thx CS, 

 

Nice to see you around.  

 

 

The military honour is a nice feature,  yes there is some abuse . I got 3 afk down votes where I was never afk... but such things would happen as well in a 12 year olds class room and saying now everyone is a teacher and praise each others. 

 

What I would change on it 

 

The positive praises stays up for 2 weeks instead of 1 current 1 week. And the negative praises stays up as same as current. 1 week. Like that it will be much more incentive for players to be nice and play better. And also you will easier find out trolls and douchebags. 

 

And 1 more thing. Could you add a neutral praise. Please.  "You need to learn how to play?!" Praise. Because now when I see top tier tanks and the behave like utter noobs and idiots , i currently give them bad sportmanship when we lose. Being in a tier x tank and doing 0 damage is just not acceptable.  


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Laz_Diesalot #4 Posted 03 June 2017 - 06:50 AM

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Yeah overall it is good.  However yes it is being abused, I for one have 4 "inactive in Battle" complaints, and have not been inactive at all.  Also one "unsporting Conduct" which I have no idea what it was for, certainly nothing deliberate on my part.

The two "Provocative communications" I have I probably deserved :)

 

I think the "Inactive in battle" should be removed from the Red team.

 

I also think that there should be heavy penalties for abuse of the system, if it is possible to check "Inactive in Battle" the player that abused it and reported a person that was in fact active and participating, no matter how badly, should be downgraded to one star.

 

Also there could be another category, for lesser "offences", maybe yellow, that carries about 1/4 of the weight of a Red complaint, for things for example like spamming chat, camping, not being a team player, blocking shots, blocking retreat to cover, not trying, not contributing....  Mainly to be able to let players know to up their game, but without the bigger penalty.  As things stand even a personal message to them after the battle can get you a "provocative communication".  This addition may help to further lower the frustration level....


Edited by Laz_Diesalot, 03 June 2017 - 06:52 AM.


SARNIA #5 Posted 03 June 2017 - 07:53 AM

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Hi Cynical,

overall I support this system but have just been on the receiving end of a couple of former clan members who have high ratings but  they trolled both myself and clan lead Stig 200 the result was even with 24 compliments and 7 complaints I went from 4 star to 3 again this leaves a bitter taste in my mouth when the complaints are inactive in battle I was a leading scorer in the battle and have never been inactive or afk so 7 inactive seriously.

Really annoys me and really spoils the fun of the game the whole experience diminishes.

Glad you are looking at it.

hope there is a speedy resolution.

SARNIA

 


Think before it is too late.  EDB

Creighton_Abrams #6 Posted 03 June 2017 - 07:58 AM

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On the Complaints side, the "Inactivty in Battle" could be simply used to refer to the least effective player or it could be used for a player who is AFK. 
If the aim is to cut down the number of AFK players, then perhaps it should be labelled as such - doing so would also make it easier to determine whether or not the assignment was fairly given.

How does this Appraisal system help identify "Bots" - perhaps a "Suspected Bot Player" option should be added, but then what behavior is exhibited to suggest a Bot Player ?

 

Functionally, If you click upon a Praise/Complaint by accident, then you are committed to leaving either one Praise or Complaint - there's no deselect option, so the only recourse in this situation appears to be to select the "Polite player".

 

Platoon team-mates should be barred from giving each other an Appraisal, otherwise it'd simply be a matter of platooning and thereafter awarding each other some other praise. (I wonder if that's how some got their 5 Stars so quickly).

 

A Swing-o-meter could be added to the player's Military Honors status - "Happy Face" :) , "Expressionless" :| and "Grumpy face" :( , which could be shown depending upon whether the Player has dished out  more Praises than Complaints. The Appraisals system being anonymous still remains an easy option for the Trolls to get Self-satisfaction, so such a feature may go to help identify them.

Has it changed the way players use chat ? I've seen some players use the now re-enabled global chat to offer wishes of Luck to the other team... that happened too, before the enhancement. I've also seen players taunt the opposing team, as well as our own.   It does seem that from time to time players are spending more time on Chat than actually focusing upon the game....so perhaps a "Chats a lot" option could be added, and if that hits a certain level in-game chats are suspended for that player.... I've also received fewer post-game abusive messages - though whether that's as a direct result of the change or not, remains to be seen (I've also played far fewer games).

 

As for Appealing inappropriate Appraisals - has any procedure been established yet for the Support team to follow ? What would they look at ?

 

 


 

 


SARNIA #7 Posted 04 June 2017 - 03:07 AM

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Hi Cynical,

overall I support this system but have just been on the receiving end of a couple of former clan members who have high ratings but  they trolled both myself and clan lead Stig 200 the result was even with 24 compliments and 7 complaints I went from 4 star to 3 again this leaves a bitter taste in my mouth when the complaints are inactive in battle I was a leading scorer in the battle and have never been inactive or afk so 7 inactive seriously.

Really annoys me and really spoils the fun of the game the whole experience diminishes.

Glad you are looking at it.

hope there is a speedy resolution.

SARNIA

 


Think before it is too late.  EDB

SARNIA #8 Posted 04 June 2017 - 03:20 AM

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Hi Cynical,

Reflecting on the honours system, It appears if you simplify matters, that basically WOTB have handed Trolls a real weapon to actually hurt other players, yes the corrosive chat has been stopped but now Trolls can impact on players in both their enjoyment of the game and their status?

At least with chat you could ignore it!

why not have a facility for players to simply switch off chat if they are hurt by it and let's get on with the game?

Now we have a sickeningly politically correct chat with people even afraid to assist or direct their team because of the honour system.


Think before it is too late.  EDB

Laz_Diesalot #9 Posted 04 June 2017 - 07:54 AM

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Ok yesterday I got a phone call from work, that I had to take, as a battle started, so I had to be afk for a bit.  Team was bad and got wiped out in the 2 minutes or so I was on the phone (I managed to move a bit  using one hand on key board to get some cover after I was spotted) but sadly I was dead after I managed to get off the phone, and although I apologized in chat "Sorry phone call" - I got 3 inactive in battle complaints. Those added to the 4 previous inactive complaints from battles where I was usually top damage, win or lose, and the one Unsporting Conduct that I also did noting to deserve that I know of, I got dropped from 5 stars to 3....

 

Piss me off?  Sure did.  Did a huge number of battles that day and the one battle I missed a few minutes of I got 3 complaints [edited]!!  My plat mate did top damage with over 1000 damage (tier V) and none of the rest even came close.

 

And tonight, supremacy, tier VII, on type 62, capped base out in desert, ran in to help heavies and chased a Drac off their rear, only got two shots off, on hit one miss, but chased a little too far and got hit by their heavies, only 2 hits but instant death from full HP.   the rest of team continued to melt in what was a fast loss.   And what to I get for my efforts?  One Unsporting Conduct complaint, I guess because I was the lowest damage on the team....

 

So from thinking this Honor system was quite good I have now swung the opposite way.   Unless there is a heavy penalty for abuse, and a checking system for detecting it W.G. can stick its Honor system and its game "where the sun don't shine".

 

Discrimination against Keyboard and Mouse users, the Update 3.8 ripoff/scam/thievery (however you want to call it) and now this B.S.

 

I'm not far off starting a campaign of playing low tier and abusing the hell out of all the new players and putting off as many as I possibly can from carrying on with the game, and therefor  not spending any money, to do as much damage to W.G. as possible.  I've already started leaving bad reviews on the net...

 

 



Laz_Diesalot #10 Posted 04 June 2017 - 10:37 PM

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Oh by the way, I'm now joining the herd, only up-vote's for my friends and clan and making sure I use all my down-votes every reset, bugger saving them for the ones actually afk or trolling.

 

Do unto others as they do unto you and up yours Wargaming I've had enough of your BullShit.- Ban me


Edited by Laz_Diesalot, 04 June 2017 - 10:38 PM.


SARNIA #11 Posted 08 June 2017 - 11:42 AM

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Further to former  comments made I have taken your advice Cynical which I appreciate,

 

I decided to submit a ticket the text of which I will put here thank you.

 

I am very unhappy about the honour system I have recently had complaints issued against my self and a platoon mate by two former clan members who are high ranked players I supplied their names in a former ticket the players made completely false comments but because of their rank I went from blue back to green 6 of the comments were for in active in battle  I have never been inactive in battle and never afk I have a reliable connection.
On top of this because of work commitments I did not play for four or five days upon my return I am two star !! All this with out any negative behaviour my platoon mate who is purple can vouch for this
Naturally I was very annoyed the honour system is givin trolls a way to actually harm other players and it is removing much of the enjoyment of the game as a result 
What you have achieved is to reduce corrosive behaviour in game but weaponised the trolls and crossive behaviour continues in PM
ON BALANCE A HUGE NEGATIVE IMPACT ON THE GAME PLEASE ADDRESS

you can ignore corrosive language but not complaints.

 

I have thought of a solution: remove the negative comments section players will receive only positive remarks and will strive to get a good rating and will reduce bad behaviour 

make the reporting trolls and afk and bots  easier by allowing larger screen shots the current ticket system means you have to use a image reduction program before you can up load a screen shot and thus reduces the complaints because the process is so time consuming.

Give people the option of switching off chat if they find it offensive a simple switch in the client.

 

Trying to be constructive here. 

If you feel not many people feel this way about the system I suspect an online poll would be instructive 

best wishes SARNIA

 


Think before it is too late.  EDB

SARNIA #12 Posted 10 June 2017 - 06:49 AM

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I have had a response from my ticket basicly a stock answer with a bit of personaliton on the end 

the gist is:

we will watch our logs and tweek.

so I suggest any one who is unhappy should log a ticket and try and communicate their dissatisfaction.

I don't like being trolled and particularly don't like the fact that wotblitz enabled the trolling!

 

 


Think before it is too late.  EDB

Creighton_Abrams #13 Posted 11 June 2017 - 12:37 PM

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Hello Sarina,

 

You can certainly email a fully sized 1600x1200 screenshot, try saving in JPG, and/or reduce resolution / scaling if still having trouble.

 

As for the Appraisal system, I completely agree, it's a Troll's delight, they can hurl abusive at you during the game, and then assign you an Inactivity in Battle award at the end. This one appears to be a popular choice, since instead of meaning AFK (Away from Keyboard), its also being used by some to express their unhappiness about how you may not have single-handily won the game. My platoon partner and I even both got Provocative Communication when neither of us said anything over chat - I guess it must have been the absence of Camouflage that they felt warranted it.

 

As for the timing of the removal of these Appraisals, the negative ones appear to last forever, even, when raising the matter via tickets.

 

Hopefully, like the Global Chats/Post-Dead chats, this feature can be switched off until something better is worked out, since as of now, it's alienating a lot of users.

 

C.A.

 

 


 

 


YodaJediMaster #14 Posted 13 June 2017 - 05:58 AM

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I did like this honour system but I have noticed a lot of players are not giving out praises anymore.

I work hard in every battle and most of the time I am up in the top 3 for doing damage yet no praises.

Plus the amount of non active players in battle there is not enough down praises to give.

I would also like to see a system where before going into a match you can see players level on honour system.

There a lot of players with negative honours yet nothing seems to happen.

Could I also suggest that these players go into there own level of fighting so it does not ruin it for players that want to play the game correctly. Say all those below 3 stars battle each other.

I am really getting fed up with players not helping, playing dead or insulting others.

 

 



Creighton_Abrams #15 Posted 13 June 2017 - 07:56 AM

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Agreed on the players not giving credit - I can from time to time win the game with 5+ kills and still get nothing, sometimes even a "Inactivity in Battle" award, or provocative communication without even saying anything.

The appraisals system is being abused by Trolls, Inter-Clan Racists, and people with a chip on their Shoulder.  The only way to be assured of a Praise, is to find a friendly Clan member and ask them to assign you something Positive after the game, regardless how good or badly you played.... this is why I previously suggested appraisals shouldn't be allowed from other Platoon mates.

 

Inactivity in Battle was supposed to denote AFK , but instead is being used to Troll players if they feel that you weren't winning the match single-handidly for them, or couldn't read their mind when they're silent towards their intentions during gameplay. You may as well rename this setting to Ineffective Player... and have done with it, rack up the count and get banned from the Game.

 

I would however, based upon  the above, disagree with you upon appraisals ranking being used to determine the Match making process, instead perhaps WR per tank/tier weighted by Games played in that tank/tier would be better.

 

 


 

 


Creighton_Abrams #16 Posted 14 June 2017 - 10:24 AM

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I just received confirmation from the Support team, that they don't have any way to adjust these Appraisals - and if you habitually receive Player Complaints, then you will be penalized.

 

Nice, really nice. - this somewhat discredits everything said previously, and the feature is there simply for Trolls, etc to get self-gratification for seeing as player penalized / demoted / banned, and to maintain a bad rep.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


 

 


sva1970 #17 Posted 14 June 2017 - 02:55 PM

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Came across one player demanding that we "Report" anyone with no damage... presumably this is how "Inactivity within Battle" is being used.

Kingsman_KiwiNZ #18 Posted 16 June 2017 - 04:49 AM

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Does the complaint ever impact on the value of the points scored or the earnings in any way? 

Kingsman_KiwiNZ #19 Posted 16 June 2017 - 04:54 AM

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Is this even for when as a player as we sometimes do get in amongst a number of enemies first and with no support from friendlies and get blitzed without firing of a round?  

This is particularly harsh on 2 counts no points or value earned and a complaint as well. Double ouch 



Kingsman_KiwiNZ #20 Posted 16 June 2017 - 04:55 AM

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Is this even for when as a player as we sometimes do get in amongst a number of enemies first and with no support from friendlies and get blitzed without firing of a round?  

This is particularly harsh on 2 counts no points or value earned and a complaint to boot as well







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