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Update 3.9 - Miliary Honour - open to abuse

racism abuse

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Creighton_Abrams #1 Posted 23 May 2017 - 01:06 PM

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The 3.9 update introduces a new player appraisal feature "Military Honor".   This from first looks, a great feature to have added. However, I suspect that it will be open to abuse, particularly as the Negative Comments can lead to the effected player being automatically barred from playing for a period of time, or receiving some other penalization.  Additionally, the ban on "inactive" players sounds troubling, if you take a break from the game for a week, or two or even a couple of months, does that make you an inactive player ?

 

As to the abuse part, here's an example.


Apart from the usual Clan rivalry, here in Asia, there's a lot of Racism. For example, Chinese/Taiwanese/Korean against Japanese, or vice-versa.  Being a member of a Clan that's supposedly exclusive to Japanese, I'm sometimes messaged after games and receive racially focused insults ...   Now this new Military Honor feature, makes it really easy for these persons to get their self satisfaction. No longer do they need to go to the bother of typing a separate message, but instead, they can unjustifiably select a damaging negative comment knowing that they will have an impact on that player, and better still for them, they get away scot-free, since there doesn't appear to be any form of tracking of the number of Negative comments such a player makes, or even any review of whether it was justified or not.  On some days, I have received several such chats, (even from Clan leads), so now instead of chats I will expect to see a ban being imposed. Nice....

 

Also, I guess instead of the "Noob" comments I will get "UnSupporting conduct" ratings... 

 

How does WG propose to validate these Negative Appraisals in order to ensure that what has been assigned is a fair judgement ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


 

 


ankitp #2 Posted 23 May 2017 - 01:23 PM

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I am totally agree with you regarding clan rivarly. Anyway I am too gonna publish a new post on this and let me have your comment on that. I am going to submit it in the same ask the producer forum

Sniper_the_fox #3 Posted 23 May 2017 - 01:36 PM

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I get where wg are aiming at and at first glance it's quite smart but people (well some of them) who

play games look for weaknesses and rort such systems.  This could easily end up with people being

too cute.  If they (wg) were smart they would trial it for x period with no ramifications for any one

and then implement it with the lessons learnt.  It's what businesses, well good ones anyway

do, we will see.  Wg have really struggled recently with how they run everything from clueless mods

to game upgrades but to be fair this is the most sensible thing said for a while.

 

 



ankitp #4 Posted 23 May 2017 - 01:43 PM

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View PostSniper_the_fox, on 23 May 2017 - 01:36 PM, said:

I get where wg are aiming at and at first glance it's quite smart but people (well some of them) who

play games look for weaknesses and rort such systems.  This could easily end up with people being

too cute.  If they (wg) were smart they would trial it for x period with no ramifications for any one

and then implement it with the lessons learnt.  It's what businesses, well good ones anyway

do, we will see.  Wg have really struggled recently with how they run everything from clueless mods

to game upgrades but to be fair this is the most sensible thing said for a while.

 

 

 

Hey hello! If you have remember, we were in allies team once upon a time and I sent GG message to you.

 

Well about your reply in response to my feedback, I agree with you that this is a very good feature but we cannot neglect its cons. Even I suggest you to see other topics in the same forum and you will see some other players have throw lights on imp topics too such as clan or country wars. For e.g I received a platoon req from a player and after 2-3 battles he asked me where do you live? We both were from Asia but our countries are engaging in a good competition as of now. He instantly dismiss the platoon after seeing my reply. Such people can also misuse this feature. 

 

Well I think there are more cons than pros.

 

And I highly recommended WG to first reveal the change log, then see what players are thinking on it and then implement it on the next update otherwise it will be a disaster likewise version 3.8.



ankitp #5 Posted 23 May 2017 - 01:44 PM

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One can read the cons here:

 

http://forum.wotblit...-honor-feature/


Edited by ankitp, 23 May 2017 - 02:02 PM.


ashisidhu7 #6 Posted 23 May 2017 - 01:50 PM

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your argument is quite weak 

 

"inactive player" means inactivity in battle not in game

 

Secondly the amount of praise+complaints are limited so if someone wants to complain just because you are a japanese then he will lose it for more important purposes like afk players ,He will rather be motivated for a better behaviour to get his own military honour higher. Such instances are not very frequent so again a weak argument.


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ankitp #7 Posted 23 May 2017 - 01:57 PM

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View Postashisidhu7, on 23 May 2017 - 01:50 PM, said:

your argument is quite weak 

 

"inactive player" means inactivity in battle not in game

 

Secondly the amount of praise+complaints are limited so if someone wants to complain just because you are a japanese then he will lose it for more important purposes like afk players ,He will rather be motivated for a better behaviour to get his own military honour higher. Such instances are not very frequent so again a weak argument.

 

A negative feedback can be given on being AFK in the game. Say like a player lost his ping during a live event and got a banned! Why? That wasn't done intentionally. Likewise, I have many players in my contacts who lost ping too often during a battle and hence they appear AFK or alternatively you can say inactive. Now, if regular complains can be taken out against such players then they will keep facing ban! You can read it in full in the other topic. The link of it has been mentioned above. So sir, let us have your opinion on that! And opinion only not the judgement whether the argument is weak or not as it is a duty of officials.



Creighton_Abrams #8 Posted 23 May 2017 - 02:42 PM

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View Postashisidhu7, on 23 May 2017 - 10:50 PM, said:

your argument is quite weak 

 

"inactive player" means inactivity in battle not in game

 

Secondly the amount of praise+complaints are limited so if someone wants to complain just because you are a japanese then he will lose it for more important purposes like afk players ,He will rather be motivated for a better behaviour to get his own military honour higher. Such instances are not very frequent so again a weak argument.

 

Having been on the receiving end of these messages, I don't really see how you, can come to such a conclusion.  As can be seen from the "News item" about the enhancement, you can make multiple Appraisal selections for your battle.

Its not clear that what is meant by "Inactive players".  Yes, there is an "Inactivity in Battle" report, but there isn't a "bot" report... so Inactive players, could be someone who hasn't played in a while... hence why I asked the producer for clarification.

 

Again, it's still open to abuse, since anyone could select "Inactivity in Battle" for any team player they thought of as a "Noob".

 

 

 

 

 

 


 

 


Gandalf_Greyhame #9 Posted 23 May 2017 - 03:13 PM

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View PostCreighton_Abrams, on 24 May 2017 - 12:42 AM, said:

Having been on the receiving end of these messages, I don't really see how you, can come to such a conclusion.  As can be seen from the "News item" about the enhancement, you can make multiple Appraisal selections for your battle.

Its not clear that what is meant by "Inactive players".  Yes, there is an "Inactivity in Battle" report, but there isn't a "bot" report... so Inactive players, could be someone who hasn't played in a while... hence why I asked the producer for clarification.

 

Again, it's still open to abuse, since anyone could select "Inactivity in Battle" for any team player they thought of as a "Noob".

 

Agreed. You don't have to play Blitz for very long to discover how much abuse players dish out. To think they won't use this feature is naive. Why would the sort of player we are talking about bother to save his votes for AFK players? He doesn't care, he's a troll himself. The sort of player who thinks carefully about how to use his daily allowance constructively is not going to be a problem. 

 

I have received abusive messages for being in the GRUMP clan. I don't know if it's grievances with some of the other members (well, some of them are about other members, as they say so, as though I am responsible for them) or if people just like to hate but the sort of messages I have received would be down-votes, I am sure, and it would have nothing to do with the way I played. 

 

 


Edited by Gandalf_Stormcrow, 23 May 2017 - 03:18 PM.

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Creighton_Abrams #10 Posted 23 May 2017 - 03:24 PM

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As for latency/ping times, there's a new Arabia Server which may suit the users based in India, rather than the Asia servers which are I believe based in Singapore. 
NZ/AUS users often have the longest ping times of 120+ (or is it 280+ now), here in Japan its usually around 110 (though can get much worse).
I don't think that latency would prevent a tank from leaving base (usual AFK situation), but it can make the game very frustrating. 
 
 
 

Edited by Creighton_Abrams, 23 May 2017 - 03:25 PM.

 

 


ashisidhu7 #11 Posted 23 May 2017 - 03:50 PM

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View PostCreighton_Abrams, on 23 May 2017 - 08:12 PM, said:

 

Having been on the receiving end of these messages, I don't really see how you, can come to such a conclusion.  As can be seen from the "News item" about the enhancement, you can make multiple Appraisal selections for your battle.

Its not clear that what is meant by "Inactive players".  Yes, there is an "Inactivity in Battle" report, but there isn't a "bot" report... so Inactive players, could be someone who hasn't played in a while... hence why I asked the producer for clarification.

 

Again, it's still open to abuse, since anyone could select "Inactivity in Battle" for any team player they thought of as a "Noob".

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

pls read carefully ,the amount of praise or complain does not stack ,it lasts a few days which means military honour gradually levitates to 3

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ashisidhu7 #12 Posted 23 May 2017 - 04:11 PM

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View PostGandalf_Stormcrow, on 23 May 2017 - 08:43 PM, said:

 

Agreed. You don't have to play Blitz for very long to discover how much abuse players dish out. To think they won't use this feature is naive. Why would the sort of player we are talking about bother to save his votes for AFK players? He doesn't care, he's a troll himself. The sort of player who thinks carefully about how to use his daily allowance constructively is not going to be a problem. 

 

I have received abusive messages for being in the GRUMP clan. I don't know if it's grievances with some of the other members (well, some of them are about other members, as they say so, as though I am responsible for them) or if people just like to hate but the sort of messages I have received would be down-votes, I am sure, and it would have nothing to do with the way I played. 

 

 

 

Human behaviour is unpredictable so have WG mentioned it in their article on military honour but i would assume a GRUMP player would receive most love atleast from me if they perform well.I am of the opinion that this change can actually curb the behaviour of trolls.

for example- you get abusive message from some random guy you can complain about him and he can do it back but your opinion holds the sway as

1.you are better than most player base so you get thumbs up.

2.you have 50k battles (read news it says it favour players with more battles)

the negative feedback you receive is offset because assuming you have a high military honour you will get less affected by people having lower military honour than you + higher military honour also gives you more appraisals,complaints to give to other players


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ankitp #13 Posted 23 May 2017 - 07:27 PM

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View PostCreighton_Abrams, on 23 May 2017 - 02:42 PM, said:

 

Having been on the receiving end of these messages, I don't really see how you, can come to such a conclusion.  As can be seen from the "News item" about the enhancement, you can make multiple Appraisal selections for your battle.

Its not clear that what is meant by "Inactive players".  Yes, there is an "Inactivity in Battle" report, but there isn't a "bot" report... so Inactive players, could be someone who hasn't played in a while... hence why I asked the producer for clarification.

 

Again, it's still open to abuse, since anyone could select "Inactivity in Battle" for any team player they thought of as a "Noob".

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Report on BOT has been submitted previously in forum as well as through tickets also.

 

And one can derive the co conclusion who has faced such egoistic and jealous players. Once upon a time, platoon mates informed a last remaining ally to act according to their guidance but that player did as per his thinking so in the end those platoon mates said we will report about you. It is meaningless! So such players can intentionally give negative feedback


Edited by ankitp, 23 May 2017 - 07:27 PM.


ankitp #14 Posted 23 May 2017 - 07:31 PM

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View PostCreighton_Abrams, on 23 May 2017 - 03:24 PM, said:

As for latency/ping times, there's a new Arabia Server which may suit the users based in India, rather than the Asia servers which are I believe based in Singapore. 
NZ/AUS users often have the longest ping times of 120+ (or is it 280+ now), here in Japan its usually around 110 (though can get much worse).
I don't think that latency would prevent a tank from leaving base (usual AFK situation), but it can make the game very frustrating. 
 
 
 

 

Loosing a ping is really frustrating. Even we see tanks flying on the battlefield when we lose ping! Game totally stops and have to restart the game. Some of my buddies have even submitted the SS too. Hopefully the ping issue will be sorted out soon as the connection is fine in Indian region of Asia. Players only face problem while accessing WOT Blitz only.



ankitp #15 Posted 23 May 2017 - 07:32 PM

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View Postashisidhu7, on 23 May 2017 - 03:50 PM, said:

 

pls read carefully ,the amount of praise or complain does not stack ,it lasts a few days which means military honour gradually levitates to 3

 

What about before military honour levitates to 3? Meantime, it will reduce the image of a player if intentionally the ally or enemy player have given a negative feedback due to what-so-ever reason.

Edited by ankitp, 23 May 2017 - 07:33 PM.


SonderAbteilung #16 Posted 23 May 2017 - 10:16 PM

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Sorry guys, 

 

But before making any hasty conclusions, read the description properly. There is a possibility of abuse but that is with all systems.  The thing is . You don't get many voices to say something.  I would keep my negative ones for afk first . And then the positive ones for ppl who really deserves it. The thing is. You need to play the game to get praised or not. So , in the end . If you're a [edited] many ppl will vote against you. And because being a [edited] you won't have many stars , and having no stars won't make it possible for being a [edited] because you cannot vote.  The system is well thought off. Now how kiddos will use it...? Probably in the first 3 games they play. And then they will rant it is unfair not to be able to vote more and blabla bla... the abuse would be in jalousy.  That ppl give bad votes to good players instead of good ones. And this is unfortunate.  However keep in mind the , that the system is flexible.  

.. before making a salad here. Let's see how it works. I bet your [edited] that 1/2 of the playerbase don't even understand that feature.  

 

The feature looks nice. But I wished they would have done something on getting more sparts first. 

 


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Dr_Jedi #17 Posted 24 May 2017 - 01:11 AM

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Wait and watch people.

I think the damage nerf of premium ammo and this direct reporting are good things.

WG can change the impact of negative feedbacks by comparing other player's feedbacks for same battle.

But they will need data first, they will surely tweak the system.

I just came back to game after few months break.

Let's see what happens.



ashisidhu7 #18 Posted 24 May 2017 - 08:03 AM

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View PostDr_Jedi, on 24 May 2017 - 06:41 AM, said:

Wait and watch people.

I think the damage nerf of premium ammo and this direct reporting are good things.

WG can change the impact of negative feedbacks by comparing other player's feedbacks for same battle.

But they will need data first, they will surely tweak the system.

I just came back to game after few months break.

Let's see what happens.

 

Welcome back!!!

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NovaWorks #19 Posted 24 May 2017 - 11:22 AM

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Even if it is abused, players who are wrongly accused will not get any punishments. This is how I think the system works:

 

If player A is reported wrongly, the system would check if the report was valid based on the battle log. Check if he made any profanity, check if he moved, check if he does damage and check how far he moved. Once it is not valid, the report made would be useless.

 

To all:

As long as you do not break the rules, false reports should not affect you.



SonderAbteilung #20 Posted 24 May 2017 - 11:14 PM

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The feature is nice .  Good job WG  GG. There is also a lot lesser idiotic chat , like noob, dog, pig,.... etc... and it looks like people are doing an effort of team play... ( I SAID, IT LOOKS LIKE!!!) not that it is 100% true. Played all tiers yesterday night. But it is in the highest tier idiots are the most available,  weird but true. 

 

Only in 1 game , I founded this feature miss used.  I was in IS 6 in tier 9 game. Team was hesitating for moving to somewhere, so I followed an E75 . Me and him were alone on 1 side of the map(all the others went the other way or were scattered ). He was pushing and I was covering his left flank. But then all shit broke lose. We met the whole red team that was lemming train.... he was busy with red conqueror, obj 704 and cent 7/1.... and I was busy with amx 100, sta, is 3 and is6.... jesus... i just fought and smashing my "help" button... managed to kill sta, heavily damage amx and is 6. Received a total of 17 shots where I managed to make 9 bounces by angling armor... now I did eventually died. But keeping the reds long enough busy and finally the rest of the team came to help. We i was the only one to die. Saved the E75 flank. He thanked me for it. ... however he got only 2 stars already.  And ppl where giving feedback on him that he was a "player too aggressive"... I think that choice is wrong or has been wrongful translated somewhere in an Asian language.  ... he was indeed pushing hard and aggressively,  but by no means that was a bad move. The others were potatoes... if you could change that feature would be nice. 

 

Also I highly suggest you get new people doing the translation especially for Asian languages.  Feelings and assessments can have different meanings when directly translated to a word or 2 from English.  (Or Russian...) . 

 

Thx


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