Jump to content


JgPz4 Thoughts


  • Please log in to reply
18 replies to this topic

Mehliveat #1 Posted 31 October 2014 - 10:15 PM

    Captain

  • Member
  • 18150 battles
  • 2,046
  • [DP]
  • Member since:
    06-27-2014

Just finished the run in the JgPz4, and this tank feels very under powered with the new MM.

 

This tank is a very specific ranged support tank.  The pen of 150 (75mm L70) is average at best.  (The supposedly top gun 88mm, has an even worse pen of 132)  The 150 is exactly the same pen as the VK32M, and is 7 less than the 157 on the VK36H, and this is supposed to be a TD.  Yes the ROF is about 2 rounds per minute faster than the VK32 with better accuracy.  But this does not make up for the shortcomings.

 

The speed and agility of the JgPz4 is great, being able to get to where you need to be fast, and can run circles around enemy heavies.  But the maps are too small and cover too spare and much of the speed is wasted.  When I am in medium, I can flank around, take cover and does a few peek n booms, it doesn't matter if I am spotted or not.  But you can't effectively do this in the JgPz4, yes you have the speed to get to the flanks, but to take a shot, you are going to expose yourself for far too long, and once spotted, the tank is too soft a target.  Therefore you have to keep the distance, but alas, the maps are small and the dangers of un-seen enemies are abound if you try to flank too far out.  In short, flanking isn't really an option as such, and can only be used in specific circumstances.

 

Now, how about getting on a perch and snipe afar from the rear?  Unfortunately the pen of 150 is too effy even for some Tier 6 heavies front on, let alone the numerous Tier 7 and 8s that are around.  T150 front is a pain to hit reliably long distance, the KV3/KV4 are essentially impossible to pen from a far.  In addition, there isn't exactly that many spots where you can have good vantage point and be able to follow the battle.  Take Rockhill for example, the typical sniping spots only have a very narrow range of view due to the many obstructions in the way.  Therefore the high ROF is rarely utilised to its full potential, as enemies move in and out of cover/line of fire.  Then if an enemy pushes up just past mid field, you are going to get spotted and hit.

 

Ok, maybe try close support/sniping just behind the front lines.  Well, this ain't going to work well, since there is no armour to speak of.  Therefore people tends to target these soft TDs first, with little fear of 160 alpha.  To compensate for the low alpha, the ROF should have come to the rescue, but its easily negated as you will die a quick death if you try to utilise it.  No turret, no armour means you have to face the enemy and take the returning shots if you want to maximise the ROF, a little wriggling about might bounce a few, but the probability is low.  Compare this to other Tier 6 TDs, Jackson has got the armour, Su-100 got the big stick, the JgPz doesn't have much too offer in close support.

 

So whats a JgPz4 to do?  It doesn't have a role that it can easily fit into.  Then add the endless zombie hordes that are abound this time of the week, the result aint pretty.  Camping T20s, camping T20s, camping heavies, camping T20s.  Well at least I didn't run into many Panther/M10s.  The tank is already a fragile support tank, then you add a fragile or non-existent front line, loads of Tier 8 matches, the tank is just a pain to play.

 

At the end, I didn't care any more, just lost through the matches to finish the grind.  I needed to sell the tank today to free up spot for the sale.  Won't be sorry to see this tank gone.  There have been good matches, got a couple masteries during the run, had fun dancing with IS3s, but the good times are few and far between.

 

Oh, btw, if you see a TD heading for a sniping/camping spot.  It doesn't not mean its an invitation for all the mediums and heavies to camp next to the TD.


Edited by Mehliveat, 31 October 2014 - 10:31 PM.


ACE_N4X_Toby #2 Posted 31 October 2014 - 10:39 PM

    Staff Sergeant

  • Member
  • 33367 battles
  • 287
  • [JROMX]
  • Member since:
    06-28-2014

It is a real piece of junk

 



tank_killer123 #3 Posted 31 October 2014 - 11:12 PM

    First Lieutenant

  • Member
  • 1226 battles
  • 656
  • Member since:
    05-27-2013
I beg to disagree that the jgpz4 is a piece of crap but IT is all on the teammates according to mehliveat.

Stomper of the Randoms. YOLOer of TDs. Master of Sniping. Carrier of the Pubs. Beholder of Luck. Chancellor of Copperfield. Savior of the trustworthy. Lover of the Pros. Commander of No Clan. Ganker of the unaware. Princess of Blitz. Joker of the Just Kiddings. Soldier of the Unicum army. Leader of the Stug Master Race

"ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US!"


AlexCumber #4 Posted 31 October 2014 - 11:17 PM

    Corporal

  • Member
  • 6444 battles
  • 90
  • Member since:
    06-30-2014

View Postcchn4, on 31 October 2014 - 10:39 PM, said:

It is a real piece of junk

 

 

It totally isn't. Play it by taking advantage of distracted enemies.

Edited by AlexCumber, 31 October 2014 - 11:18 PM.


Mehliveat #5 Posted 31 October 2014 - 11:27 PM

    Captain

  • Member
  • 18150 battles
  • 2,046
  • [DP]
  • Member since:
    06-27-2014

Did a list of tier 6 pen and DPM

 

E8 - 128:1678

T34-85 144:1450

VK32 - 150:1560

JgPz4 - 150:1683

VK36 - 157:1560

M6 - 160:1550

Jackson - 160:1476

T-150 - 167:1402

KV-1S - 175:1144

Su100 - 175:1448

 

JgPz4's pen of 150 is decidedly subpar for a tier 6, higher only than the E8 and T34-85.  The DPM tops the list, but not by that much, couple hundred more, but the bounces will easily bring it back down.

 

Pre-1.2 and the new MM.  The JgPz could have held it own due to the high DPM, I bounced quite a few shots from Tier 5s, Tier 4s should be a breeze.  Unfortunately in this new era/MM, this tank seriously need a buff.


Edited by Mehliveat, 31 October 2014 - 11:38 PM.


Mehliveat #6 Posted 31 October 2014 - 11:37 PM

    Captain

  • Member
  • 18150 battles
  • 2,046
  • [DP]
  • Member since:
    06-27-2014

View PostAlexCumber, on 01 November 2014 - 10:17 AM, said:

 

It totally isn't. Play it by taking advantage of distracted enemies.

 

Problem is that a medium can play the flanking role much better.  The VK32 (haven't driven one for quite a while, so memory is fuzzy) has similar speed, got turret, slightly lower DPM, can play the the role much better. Especially against higher tiers.  The VK32 can peek and sneak a shot in, get back to cover in half the time that JgPz will need.

 

I just think when WG designed this tank, it was with +-2 MM in mind.  JgPz4 with the speed and DPM can bully the tier 4s easy, offsetting the tough games against tier 8s.  But now, its just not as balanced.



Dix_Neuf #7 Posted 01 November 2014 - 01:38 AM

    First Lieutenant

  • Member
  • 10262 battles
  • 529
  • Member since:
    06-27-2014

It's a piece of crap. I only liked it because it looked like a Lowrider. Was glad to sell it to get the Jagdpanther.. Wait... what? No that was crap too. Most battles over by the time I even got close to another tank. Spent so much money on chocolate and adrenaline to get to the Ferd...

 

PanzerJager I - LEL

Marder II - Whee

Hetzer - Hetzing.

StuGIII - DERP!

DickerMax - Hold my beer, watch this. Oh, sorry.

JagdPzIV - Can I make you a coffee? My gun is firing yoghurt.

JagdPanther - Sloooww. Oh no, a heavy! Bounce, bounce, bounce. Heavy dead.

Ferdinand - Hello, I'm a shipping container. You're dead.

JagdTiger - Best T9 TD. Love this tank to bits.

JagdPz E100 - Ph33r the Death Starzzz. Requires either stupid enemies, or team work. Never seem to have either.


Edited by Dix_Neuf, 01 November 2014 - 01:46 AM.


OP_Assassin #8 Posted 01 November 2014 - 01:48 AM

    First Lieutenant

  • Member
  • 10016 battles
  • 666
  • Member since:
    06-27-2014

I agree. It's horrible. My 46% WR with it shows it but on my jag panther I did wayyyyy better due to it having a bit better features :P.

If your grinding the german tds, be prepared to yolo to the jagdtiger or even the non-stock ferdi from the stug/hetzer.



shaquille12 #9 Posted 01 November 2014 - 01:52 AM

    Staff Sergeant

  • Member
  • 8900 battles
  • 486
  • Member since:
    06-27-2014
I was sick of that tank as well, I used free xp to move up. Grinding that thing is painful

Artisto81 #10 Posted 01 November 2014 - 09:38 AM

    Captain

  • Moderator
  • 8231 battles
  • 2,104
  • Member since:
    07-19-2014
The gun need to be buffed. The 88 mm canon is too weak, it has weak penetration so currently I'm only mount 75 mm gun.... Seriously, the 88mm gun is the same gun that you have on tiger 1, historically this gun can kill m4 or T-85 with just one hit... The only good apect about this TD is it speed/agility.... When your team mates is suck, this tank will die quickly, it can not hold by it self, more over carrying the team

"In Russia, they say I'm a Pole, in Poland they call me Russian".

“The German army is a machine, and machines can be broken!”— Konstantin Rokossovsky

 


CHrist1an22 #11 Posted 01 November 2014 - 12:08 PM

    First Lieutenant

  • Member
  • 10181 battles
  • 970
  • [DWT]
  • Member since:
    06-27-2014
Stock grind is painful with 50% crew. It felt so much better because of the crew. I am somehow so much better in luck or skill. Getting 3 Ace Tankers was most surprising. I still had bad games but I kept my cool the third time (I bought it) to reach the JPanther. May I wish luck to those still grinding this. The L/70 feels so much better and in the L/56, I can hit the the lower plate of a T29. Engines come from the Panzer III. And it now feels somewhat sluggish. Armor is the "best" for tier VI TD. The lower plate of the Jackson is 114mm, 60 in the upper. Still have to compare to the others. I just bought the Jackson and with 50% crew, it feels terrible. Well, all tanks are. All I can say this is an underestimated to VERY skilled ones and mixed opinions on others.
Metalstorm member and universal Tank Ace reporting for duty...

Tanks that I have: Object 268, KV-4, VK.30.01 (D).

 


KodaK #12 Posted 01 November 2014 - 01:40 PM

    Staff Sergeant

  • Member
  • 2574 battles
  • 331
  • Member since:
    05-03-2012

View PostArtisto81, on 01 November 2014 - 09:38 AM, said:

The gun need to be buffed. The 88 mm canon is too weak, it has weak penetration so currently I'm only mount 75 mm gun.... Seriously, the 88mm gun is the same gun that you have on tiger 1, historically this gun can kill m4 or T-85 with just one hit... The only good apect about this TD is it speed/agility.... When your team mates is suck, this tank will die quickly, it can not hold by it self, more over carrying the team

 

historically speaking, the legendary short 88 on the jp4 (and the tiger 1 to an extent) shot at mostly shermans, t34 mediums and KV1/2; the equivalent of tier 5 and 6. Afaik it never had the chance to shoot at the equivalent of tier 7 up in blitz so irl there's very little actual combat data fighting say, an IS, T29 and the like save for live fire tests and theoretical data. Mind you, the pershing did enter ww2 but it was already nearing the end of the war so it might have never encountered the short 88

Edited by KodaK, 01 November 2014 - 01:43 PM.


CHrist1an22 #13 Posted 02 November 2014 - 12:51 PM

    First Lieutenant

  • Member
  • 10181 battles
  • 970
  • [DWT]
  • Member since:
    06-27-2014

View PostKodaK, on 01 November 2014 - 09:40 PM, said:

 

historically speaking, the legendary short 88 on the jp4 (and the tiger 1 to an extent) shot at mostly shermans, t34 mediums and KV1/2; the equivalent of tier 5 and 6. Afaik it never had the chance to shoot at the equivalent of tier 7 up in blitz so irl there's very little actual combat data fighting say, an IS, T29 and the like save for live fire tests and theoretical data. Mind you, the pershing did enter ww2 but it was already nearing the end of the war so it might have never encountered the short 88

It DID. Two Tiger Is faced a rest stop of IS-2s (An IS with the 122mm D-25-T). They caught them by surprise. Battle of the Baltics.


Metalstorm member and universal Tank Ace reporting for duty...

Tanks that I have: Object 268, KV-4, VK.30.01 (D).

 


CHrist1an22 #14 Posted 02 November 2014 - 12:54 PM

    First Lieutenant

  • Member
  • 10181 battles
  • 970
  • [DWT]
  • Member since:
    06-27-2014

View PostKodaK, on 01 November 2014 - 09:40 PM, said:

 

historically speaking, the legendary short 88 on the jp4 (and the tiger 1 to an extent) shot at mostly shermans, t34 mediums and KV1/2; the equivalent of tier 5 and 6. Afaik it never had the chance to shoot at the equivalent of tier 7 up in blitz so irl there's very little actual combat data fighting say, an IS, T29 and the like save for live fire tests and theoretical data. Mind you, the pershing did enter ww2 but it was already nearing the end of the war so it might have never encountered the short 88

Otto Carius was in one of the Tigers. The IS-2 was slow loading. Saw it in Greatest Tank Battles. It should give proof...


Metalstorm member and universal Tank Ace reporting for duty...

Tanks that I have: Object 268, KV-4, VK.30.01 (D).

 


shaquille12 #15 Posted 02 November 2014 - 01:01 PM

    Staff Sergeant

  • Member
  • 8900 battles
  • 486
  • Member since:
    06-27-2014
Ahh history

Despreaux #16 Posted 02 November 2014 - 10:43 PM

    Captain

  • Member
  • 9998 battles
  • 2,098
  • Member since:
    11-24-2012
Very hard tank to learn and master. Very unforgiving for each single mistakes, should not be close up to the front lines. Its more to a support role however should not shoot from behind the allied front when facing tier 8s. Its traverse and speed is good but armor makes it harder. Should be played under the radar and should not engage at idle enemies. Its best to attack busy enemies that are showing their sides to you and make use of the dpm and then get out when they rotate their turrets. It just have to be played smart however this can be tiring and mistakes happen and as I said its very unforgiving so mistakes can prove deadly

"Right or wrong, evil or good, but they still fight, without second thoughts they march up to the enemy, they dont hope to go home tommorow, their families are now their war brothers, every bullet they shoot, every lives they taken, every blood they spilt, did they give up? They'll never give up, for their flag they will fight, even if it means dying at cost, rather than die in vain, they'll fight for whats theirs, until the last blood drop, they are the soldiers of war" -war-


KodaK #17 Posted 03 November 2014 - 08:48 AM

    Staff Sergeant

  • Member
  • 2574 battles
  • 331
  • Member since:
    05-03-2012

View PostCHrist1an22, on 02 November 2014 - 12:54 PM, said:

Otto Carius was in one of the Tigers. The IS-2 was slow loading. Saw it in Greatest Tank Battles. It should give proof...

 

i stand corrected then. I saw that episode but afaik the IS was caught by surprise or AFK from the side, not duking it out with the tigers.

CHrist1an22 #18 Posted 03 November 2014 - 12:36 PM

    First Lieutenant

  • Member
  • 10181 battles
  • 970
  • [DWT]
  • Member since:
    06-27-2014

View PostKodaK, on 03 November 2014 - 04:48 PM, said:

 

i stand corrected then. I saw that episode but afaik the IS was caught by surprise or AFK from the side, not duking it out with the tigers.

Yeah, Just imagine that one of the IS missed and loads another, It is slow. Just like ingame. Just later an IS kills a Tiger. But the first one is really stopped. The others, well, didn't have time to run to operate their tanks. The ones who did. Well, didn't have time to load just what I've said before


Metalstorm member and universal Tank Ace reporting for duty...

Tanks that I have: Object 268, KV-4, VK.30.01 (D).

 


Artisto81 #19 Posted 03 November 2014 - 01:02 PM

    Captain

  • Moderator
  • 8231 battles
  • 2,104
  • Member since:
    07-19-2014

View PostCHrist1an22, on 03 November 2014 - 07:36 PM, said:

Yeah, Just imagine that one of the IS missed and loads another, It is slow. Just like ingame. Just later an IS kills a Tiger. But the first one is really stopped. The others, well, didn't have time to run to operate their tanks. The ones who did. Well, didn't have time to load just what I've said before

 

It is slow to reload because the loader must load 2 pieces of ammo: the shell it self and the primer, also the 122 mm shell is very heavy, and the turret is cramped.


"In Russia, they say I'm a Pole, in Poland they call me Russian".

“The German army is a machine, and machines can be broken!”— Konstantin Rokossovsky

 





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users